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post #1 of 25 (permalink) Old 03-18-2017, 01:48 PM Thread Starter
 
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451 ED owners?

seen about 50 cars lately online for less than 5k and low low miles electric drive

curious if there is anyone here with an electric drive and any thoughts/concerns/complaints/issues with them

just doesnt make any sense how there is so many 2014 electrics out there for so cheap!
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post #2 of 25 (permalink) Old 03-18-2017, 02:16 PM
 
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You might try the ED forum....
Keep in mind that most of these cars have BAP, i.e. either an extra $5k or $80/month until 10 years from original purchase are up.
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post #3 of 25 (permalink) Old 03-18-2017, 02:19 PM Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by SuperSmartie View Post
You might try the ED forum....
Keep in mind that most of these cars have BAP, i.e. either an extra $5k or $80/month until 10 years from original purchase are up.
what is BAP?

how can someone sell a used car "as is" with a monthly fee/fee on top of it?
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post #4 of 25 (permalink) Old 03-18-2017, 02:27 PM
 
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Originally Posted by rijowysock View Post
seen about 50 cars lately online for less than 5k and low low miles electric drive

curious if there is anyone here with an electric drive and any thoughts/concerns/complaints/issues with them

just doesnt make any sense how there is so many 2014 electrics out there for so cheap!
Great car if you don't mind the limited range or extended charging period. Not only is the initial price low (if purchased gently used) but maintenance is low and cost per mile is low. Very economical.

Don't forget that you are supposed to purchase the battery assurance plus (BAP) plan as well, which costs either $960 a year ($80 per month), or about $7000 if you buy a 2014 and keep it forever, or you can purchase the battery outright for $5000. You do not have to do either of these if the original owner purchased the battery outright themselves, but very few did that (perhaps less than 10%). Some sellers will tell you right in their ad about this hidden cost, while others will claim ignorance. In the latter case, MB may hunt you down to enforce this policy, although there is some debate on that. There is also debate on whether MB will continue the BAP program. Other electric cars do not require any such annual battery lease, which is why the SMART ED sells at a substantial discount.

Aside from this hidden cost, these cars are coming off lease in abundance right now, which is driving down the cost. Also, a newer model of the ED is coming out in just months, so many buyers are waiting to purchase that. Also, SMART ICE cars had bad publicity recently with a gas tank issue, which is driving down demand for all SMART cars. Finally, SMART has discontinued selling SMART ICE cars, which may or may not be further depressing demand. Additionally, other electric cars are increasing their range, which is decreasing demand for SMART ED. Add it all up, increased supply and decreased demand makes the price go down.
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post #5 of 25 (permalink) Old 03-18-2017, 04:57 PM
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Originally Posted by rijowysock View Post
seen about 50 cars lately online for less than 5k and low low miles electric drive
Recalling your foray into amassing a fleet of 453's for profit, you may not want to go down that path with ED?

After front loaded EV incentives and rebates, "value" can be very confusing? Many MY14 leases are flipping at auction with the majority of resales being sled PLUS the monthly $80 BAP rent.

That being said, if you accept ED and EV range for what it is you will have a fun and affordable ride. Probably one that you should plan on driving the wheels off as the preowned market will likely remain soft.

And the elephant in the room - with smart pulling the ICE model out of N.A., what will be the success of the brand while offering only an EV?
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post #6 of 25 (permalink) Old 03-18-2017, 05:17 PM
 
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And the elephant in the room - with smart pulling the ICE model out of N.A., what will be the success of the brand while offering only an EV?
Initially there may be a hit on ED sales due to folks thinking that there must be a problem with SMART for MB to stop selling ICE cars, but that will fade quickly, especially once the new 453 ED hits the sales floor. It's a fairly different audience for the ICE and ED versions. The brand will become more focused on electrics, which may actually be a good thing for sales of the electrics. Perhaps SMART will pull out of markets that are largely rural where ICE models were the dominant sales and focus on more markets where drives are short and ED sales can thrive, perhaps with focused advertising as well. With MB now rolling out lots of electric MB, MB dealerships and service centers will have no problems taking care of the SMART ED.
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post #7 of 25 (permalink) Old 03-19-2017, 07:01 AM
 
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Originally Posted by hurricanes View Post
Initially there may be a hit on ED sales due to folks thinking that there must be a problem with SMART for MB to stop selling ICE cars, but that will fade quickly, especially once the new 453 ED hits the sales floor. It's a fairly different audience for the ICE and ED versions. The brand will become more focused on electrics, which may actually be a good thing for sales of the electrics. Perhaps SMART will pull out of markets that are largely rural where ICE models were the dominant sales and focus on more markets where drives are short and ED sales can thrive, perhaps with focused advertising as well. With MB now rolling out lots of electric MB, MB dealerships and service centers will have no problems taking care of the SMART ED.
It's a grand idea to focus sales on the ED to areas that will benefit from it, BUT 60 -70 mile range is still 60 to 70 mile range which equals a VERY limited market. With no ICE , I don't see the brand lasting more than a year with the ED.
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post #8 of 25 (permalink) Old 03-19-2017, 08:42 AM
 
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It's a grand idea to focus sales on the ED to areas that will benefit from it, BUT 60 -70 mile range is still 60 to 70 mile range which equals a VERY limited market. With no ICE , I don't see the brand lasting more than a year with the ED.
Nothing wrong with a very limited market. Hundreds of successful cars on the road today are in very limited markets; often selling far fewer cars worldwide than the ED. As long as SMART can piggyback on MB, it has low costs for a dealer network and service centers. And the market for electric cars in general is growing quickly; something I'm sure hasn't escaped the eyes of corporate. Even if gas remains low, electricity is still usually cheaper and there is a strong environmentally aware population. As companies like Tesla expand the publics view of electrics, the potential for the SMART ED is definitely there.

The range is not an issue for me or many others. Not everyone needs to drive 100 miles a day. My office is 6 miles from home; my wife's office is 3 miles; kids schools are 4 miles; grocery, etc. are 2 miles. I often go several days without charging; no worries about range. I have a minivan that I can use if I take out of town trips or need to pack the family. The economics of the ED are attractive to me and many others; low maintenance costs, low fuel costs, very reliable. And no one says that there is a 60 to 70 mile limit forever; future SMART models may well far exceed that.
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post #9 of 25 (permalink) Old 03-19-2017, 01:55 PM
 
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Originally Posted by hurricanes View Post
Nothing wrong with a very limited market. Hundreds of successful cars on the road today are in very limited markets; often selling far fewer cars worldwide than the ED. As long as SMART can piggyback on MB, it has low costs for a dealer network and service centers. And the market for electric cars in general is growing quickly; something I'm sure hasn't escaped the eyes of corporate. Even if gas remains low, electricity is still usually cheaper and there is a strong environmentally aware population. As companies like Tesla expand the publics view of electrics, the potential for the SMART ED is definitely there.

The range is not an issue for me or many others. Not everyone needs to drive 100 miles a day. My office is 6 miles from home; my wife's office is 3 miles; kids schools are 4 miles; grocery, etc. are 2 miles. I often go several days without charging; no worries about range. I have a minivan that I can use if I take out of town trips or need to pack the family. The economics of the ED are attractive to me and many others; low maintenance costs, low fuel costs, very reliable. And no one says that there is a 60 to 70 mile limit forever; future SMART models may well far exceed that.
I seriously doubt the "future" smart models will ever exceed the range limits that are here now. There's just not the room fro larger batteries and the clock is ticking on the US market for smart. The new M-B electrics, hybrids and the fact that our current President may do away with the mileage standards may lead to the demise of smart in the US altogether.
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post #10 of 25 (permalink) Old 03-19-2017, 02:24 PM
 
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I seriously doubt the "future" smart models will ever exceed the range limits that are here now. There's just not the room fro larger batteries
I respectfully disagree with this statement. As a physicist, I am perhaps more aware than you of the latest technical research in battery design. The chances are good that there will not only be reductions in battery cost but also increases in battery storage capability; some of the stuff I have seen would blow your mind. While there are no guarantees, in my opinion the question is more a matter of when than if; and that is the key question as it could take a while for the revolutionary changes. Of course, SMART may just decide that the current range is fine and just market to those folks who agree with that. But I would wager that range will increase with future models, as it has with other electrics.

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Originally Posted by kheran View Post
the clock is ticking on the US market for smart. The new M-B electrics, hybrids and the fact that our current President may do away with the mileage standards may lead to the demise of smart in the US altogether.
M-B electrics and hybrids are a completely different market than the SMART ED is aiming for; no competition there. No question that the elimination of mileage standards and such are part of the reason MB is getting out of the SMART ICE market in the US, but it has less of an influence in the ED market. The ED has the advantages of lower maintenance and fuel costs, and has the strong interest of the environmentally aware population. Consider for a moment that the sales of all electric cars over the past two years has more than doubled all the while states have been removing incentives and gas has been cheap. The elimination of mileage standards and federal tax credits, should those happen, will likely slow the growth of sales but many will still be attracted by the environmentally friendly nature of the ED and the economics. You may be correct that MB will opt to drop the SMART ED in the US as well, but I can understand their logic for keeping it alive for now.

Again, I feel your pain at the loss of the ICE SMART. I also wish they would continue selling it; I almost bought one myself last year. But there is logic in their decision to stop selling the ICE version but continue selling the ED.
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