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Why 75% of electric-car buyers don't buy electric cars

11K views 86 replies 29 participants last post by  svaraman 
#1 ·
As of this month, seven EV models offer leasing deals of less than $200 per month for 36 months:


  • 2015 Fiat 500e ($169 per month, $1,999 down)
  • 2015 Ford Focus Electric ($199 per month, $2,079 down)
  • 2016 Mitsubishi i-MiEV ($189 per month, $3,388 down)
  • 2015 Chevrolet Spark EV ($139 per month, no money down)
  • 2015 Smart Fortwo EV ($139 per month, $1,433 down)
  • 2015 Nissan Leaf S ($199 per month, $2,399 down)
  • 2015 Volkswagen e-Golf ($199 per month, $2,349 down)

Other models, above the $200-per-month ceiling, include:


  • 2015 Kia Soul EV ($249 per month, $1,999 down)
  • 2015 BMW i3 ($439 per month, $7,500 down)
  • 2015 Mercedes-Benz B-Class ($319 per month, $4,113 down)
  • 2015 Tesla Model S 70D ($838 per month, $6,553)

Why 75% of electric-car buyers don't buy electric cars
 
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#12 ·
  • 2015 Smart Fortwo EV ($139 per month, $1,433 down)
  • 2015 Tesla Model S ($838 per month, $6,553)
...own both of these cars, didn't lease.

My Smart ED was $19K all-in. Over 10 years, if I loaned the entire amount at 3% it would be $183/mo. Completely agree that leasing would have been cheaper in the short term, but I wanted to avoid the "crush the lease return" that happened to the previous generation of EV leases just one decade before. Maybe if I keep the car longer than 10 years, I'll be ahead of those leasing...but it doesn't matter, I'm saving ~$100 per month on gas+insurance compared to the car it replaced, so this was a good purchase in my books.

The Tesla was quite a bit more, and was not bought for economic or rational reasons...but wow, it's a fantastic way to enjoy driving again, and of course avoid using gas!
 
#21 ·
Many places in the world produce all or the majority of their power from renewable resources, hydro, wind. So the whole "electric cars powered by coal" is a lame attempt at skewing the facts. Even in places that produce power by coal, a scrubbed smoke stack is a heck of a lot cleaner than 10,000 tail pipes...fact.

BC Hydro has interesting data on their website. If every vehicle in BC was traded in for an electric tomorrow the strain on the power grid would go up 19 percent. The reserve capacity of the grid can be double that depending on time of the year.

Long charge times??. If my car is at 20 percent or 80 percent, either way it's full when I get up in the morning. We rarely plug in anywhere other than at home.

I can't see hydrogen catching on. No delivery system in place. Electricity is already everywhere. Battery problems for the most part are worked out except for long range. The car we replaced with our electric, in eight years never went more than 120 KM from home. I suspect many have similar driving habits.

Electrics won't work for everybody, but they will and already do for many. We have probably taken 25 people for test drives in our ED, More than half will be looking at an electric for their next car. VERY fun car.
 
#28 · (Edited)
Many places in the world produce all or the majority of their power from renewable resources, hydro, wind.
I question "many places" and "all or the majority".

Regardless, I'm sure you understand the grids, electricity is bought and sold among utilities as demand requires. Unless you're going to pay a hefty premium (of questionable worth), even though you've got a renewable (or nuclear) plant next door to you, you're buying fossil generated electricity.

The mere preponderance of fossil generated electricity and the shared resources of the grid virtually guarantees you've getting very little renewable resource generated electricity.

There's a nuclear plant 80 miles away from me (as the crow flies). But, inside the same radius, there are probably a dozen fossil fuel plants, all on the same grid. There are zero hydroelectric, wind, tidal, solar, geothermal, or any other non-fossil plants.

EDIT: Oops! My bad. I just realized I was posting to the ED subforum. Over and out, unless someone is silly enough to quote me.
 
#23 ·
Fog and clouds have an impact on solar panels, but it isn't like they stop functioning when they aren't in direct sunlight. There is a commune in Tennessee that is as completely off the grid as you can get. All of their electricity is produced by just a few solar panels. I was talking to a guy that lives there a few years back, they had just made some sort of upgrade to their solar panels and he was very excited about the fact that they were generating electricity, a small amount, at night when there is a full moon. Makes me wonder how of a problem fog can really be?
 
#24 ·
I must have missed the train here while my battery was charging. :(
I thought the question was why is it that people are leasing their EV's rather than buying?
To lease or buy? 75% decided to lease their EV rather than buy one. Why? What's going on?
I could speculate. Ok I will. >:D
For most people - present company excepted, electric vehicles are just too strange, too foreign and don't go far enough. And technology changes almost every year (anyone know who gets most of the credit for that - go on bite your APPLE:D) so why buy today what might be a lemon or obsolete tomorrow.
And if you do buy one today and what happens in five or six years or more when it's time to replace the batteries. Humongous costs? Can they afford it?. What will be the resale value? Can they resell it?
Lots of unknowns and that list could be even longer when you factor in things like insurance and electricity costs.
So people might just be a tad reluctant to buy. Not everyone is 'into the environment thing' either and so you have a buying public that just isn't quite sure what they should do. It is a gamble for many.
Manufacturers may be dumb and stupid, sometimes even at the same time, but they can do the math and numbers unsold is not a challenging scenario.
Voila - let's then offer incentives and lease programs to entice the public to at least try the cars. Three years is very common and even for most of us here, we expect that in three years there will be some improvements. So three year lease programs get the cars out the door, inventories go down, EPA credits flow, green governments are happy yada yada..
And that my friends is why leasing is more popular than buying. :Thankyou:
 
#27 ·
Well, unless it's the 451 --> 453 smart gassers. That was a huge improvement! :D
Yep, why I leased my 2013 gasser 3 years ago.

A 2013 smart ED has been on a local used car lot for months here in my area. A very nice car with low miles but no buyers. While there is a Tesla and BMW here, those are the only EDs I have seen. Even if folks in the area know about EDs, they just aren't practical in this area unless you only drive around town. Most of us pile up considerable miles on round trips for jobs as well as shopping that would severely challenge an ED. Battery tech must improve for areas such as ours!
 
#26 ·
When I lease (vs. purchase) an EV/ED, it will be for reasons 1 & 2; and 3-5 are why I'd get an EV/ED whether by lease or purchase.

1. Cost Savings
a. Monthly
b. Operation
c. Service
2. Risk aversion (tech)
3. Performance
4. Suits my needs
5. No trips to a gas pump
 
#31 ·
Incochief's post above absolutely nailed it for me. I was absolutely sure I was going to lease my Smart EV for most of the reasons he stated. In fact I had signed the paperwork. Fortunately for me, the dealer and I had a serious misunderstanding and I canceled that deal. I then found a 2014 that had been sitting on a dealer lot of about fifteen months. The dealer took $5K off, then took off my $2800 USAA discount and after figuring in the federal tax credit, the cost to buy was around $13K. Hard to pass that up, so I ended up changing my mind and bought it.

Len
2014 Smart EV
 
#32 ·
I don't care if people keep their oil-guzzling cars. They're the ones burning the money out of their own wallets, wasting hours of their life at gas stations yearly, and dropping unearthly amounts of money into maintaining cars with far too many moving parts.

Hydrogen is even more of a joke. $13 for 1 kg of 10k psi hydrogen, which'll get you 60 miles of driving.

No thanks, I'll get a vastly superior driving experience every single day, and can easily rent a car the maybe three days a year I need longer range (and I'll usually fly those longer trips, making the point moot).

Also solar panels have a ROI far above that of the stock market in many areas of the country. Going green is not only morally the right thing to do, but it's also vastly superior for green in your wallet now, too.
 
#34 · (Edited)
When there is an EV that can handle my daily mileage of 168-325 miles (I'm moving out, and not where I'll be driving less) and refuel in three minutes all the while costing less than an exotic import, then I'll consider EVs as a vastly superior driving experience.

I LOVE EVs, but let's be honest here, they are not yet the end all solution for most people. It is not possible for me to own one without negatively changing my lifestyle. :(

You know, the super smugness of this end of the forum is honestly really disappointing. We should be celebrating BOTH the petrol model and the EV...not trying to defecate in each other's cereals. :shrug:
 
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#39 ·
"daily mileage of 168-325 miles...."
Assuming that this is not for some kind of traveling service job, then apparently, the price of gasoline is not nearly high enough yet...

The nicest years of my life were when I lived in a neighborhood which, and had a downtown job which, didn't require me to drive a car at all

But having written that, the problem with an electric car remains is that if one is a weekend-warrior type who heads out to the lakes, rivers mountains etc., than one needs to still own a second IC engine car - a zipcar or rental won't do if a rack is needed for that canoe, kayak, skis, hang-glider etc....
 
#43 ·
Great topic for a thread: How far would you drive for love?

During a three-year period, I drove 110 miles each way 3X/week (San Diego to Los Angeles). I'd get to LA by 11 PM, and made it back to my San Diego office by 8 AM the next day. In retrospect, I should've taken better care of the car, and paid less attention to the relationship! Haha.
 
#45 ·
I drove the ED. I would buy one in a New York Minute if it had the range I would require. Ideally I'd have both an ICE and an ED...I mean, I am a sucker for a sweet exhaust note.

As for jobs, I'm moving in an emergency, so there was no time to look for a new one. And everyone so far has been rejecting me hard. Soooo long distance for crap pay :(

And as for love, the distance I would go is only limited by the funds in my bank account
 
#67 ·
And as for love, the distance I would go is only limited by the funds in my bank account

If I had thought of that, I would probably have a lot more investments. But, in the long run those relationships shaped who I am today and I have no regrets for jumping in with both feet. Sometimes it was good, sometimes not so much. I even did the bi-coastal thing for nearly two years...>:D
 
#49 ·
It is interesting, but not all that surprising. It was never designed to not use fossil fuels. It's just using more than expected. 65% of the energy it produces is from the sun's rays. And the technology is tweaked and gets better every year. This is a set back that science deniers like to hear, and it's kind of sickening. Solar energy is clearly cleaner as a whole. There's really no question.

A couple of years old, but informative.
Myths And Facts About Solar Energy | Research | Media Matters for America
 
#48 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neonspinnazz
You know, the super smugness of this end of the forum is honestly really disappointing.

SuperSmartie says...
How come EV pride and touting the smart ED advantages is so often mistaken as smugness? Can't we be happy about our little clean and silent pocket-rockets?


Hooly Madooley. Smugness to some is envy to others. Try that on for size and I'm not looking to start a war here.

Both cars have appeal to different segments. Gas versus electric is just a choice, but the biggest reason I think we all enjoy 'em is the fun factor, the size and showing the world different can be good and even cute.

If I had a longer commute than the range of an EV, I would be in the market for the ICE version and be very happy with it. My driving and lifestyle supports an EV and I'm very happy to have it.

EV folks have a lot less choice as to what they can do to their "battery packs". Just look at the choices Mickeyboy is pointing out for the 453 in Italy. Wow. Can't do those things to our EV's.

In terms of choices and upgrades, we EVrs can only dream.

I really don't see a conflict here or any smugness. I see people who love their Smarts and are willing to share their love and knowledge of all things that matter and make owning enjoyable.

Ok, I have a flame suit on standby, but I'm hoping we are beyond that.:wink:
 
#51 ·
I alway love it when innumerate, scientifically ignorant people (like most "investors"are) throw out a number that sounds so (Oooohhhhhh) big.

46,000 tons of CO2 over a year would be the equivalent of burning about 12,500 tons of coal a year. A coal burning plant of comparable output would burn about 600,000 tons of coal a year and put out about 2 million tons of CO2 a year. So this thermal-solar power plant (and I don't think solar-thermal is ever going to take off - nuclear combined with photovoltaics and wind is the way to go) emits only 2% of the CO2 of an equivalent capacity coal burning plant.
 
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