Another dealer installing area451 CC (OH) - Page 3 - Smart Car of America Forums : Smart Car Forum

SmartieParts · 09-04-2009, 10:01 AM

I'm not sure why $200 would be "way more than they should"?? That's equates to a $100 shop rate, which is pretty normal these days, no?

Perceived value is in the eye of the beholder. There are at least some people happily paying $1000 to have our cruise put in (total price). And I wouldn't say those people are getting ripped of by any means. In that example, they have the backing of the installer that they'll take care of any/all problems and that level of comfort has some costs associated with it as well. People who shelled out extra cash for the smart extended warranty should appreciate that especially.

In any case, just find out what you're being asked to pay and what that includes and make the decision for yourself.

Area 451 or SmartieParts of course have nothing to do with installer's prices at all other than offering a time estimation of 2 hours.

cubefx · 09-18-2009, 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SmartieParts

I'm not sure why $200 would be "way more than they should"?? That's equates to a $100 shop rate, which is pretty normal these days, no?

Perceived value is in the eye of the beholder. There are at least some people happily paying $1000 to have our cruise put in (total price). And I wouldn't say those people are getting ripped of by any means. In that example, they have the backing of the installer that they'll take care of any/all problems and that level of comfort has some costs associated with it as well. People who shelled out extra cash for the smart extended warranty should appreciate that especially.

In any case, just find out what you're being asked to pay and what that includes and make the decision for yourself.

Area 451 or SmartieParts of course have nothing to do with installer's prices at all other than offering a time estimation of 2 hours.

I am sorry if my post sounded rude. That was not my intentions.

Both systems are plug and play (at least that was my experience with MDC). It took me less the an hour to install it, including adding the led to the instrument cluster. That was my first and only CC installation. If installer have previous experience with the install it should take 40 minutes tops. There is no cutting/splicing involved. Only tool used is torx scredriver. $200 for that job is overkill IMHO. Radio installation is more involved then this. Also you can get decent security system installed for that price (including parts and labor) and that install is way more complicated.

Again, that is just my opinion.

**jwight** · 09-19-2009, 05:26 AM

Quote:

...at least that was my experience with MDC

The area 451 is not PnP; considerable amount of pin extracting involved. That adds time, even for an experienced installer.

SmartieParts · 09-19-2009, 09:32 AM

I disagree with that. Well, sort of. "Plug and Play" is a computer peripheral term that obviously technically doesn't apply to either device. But in the world of automotive aftermarket, the term is often used and simply means there's nothing to permanently damage during installation and/or nothing to configure or calibrate once installed. Both definitions apply just as much to the Area 451 as the MDC. The only permanent modification in both cases is a drilled hole that is required for the switch cable (Area 451) or LED cable (MDC) and is not readily visible in either case. No calibration is required with either. Some programming is usually done but not required with the MDC. Essentially then, they are both "PnP" as the term applies.

The pin extraction adds barely any more time to the A451 then the pedal and speedo disassembly do to the MDC. Some people's experience has varied with some people saying they've spent "hours" on the pins... I do them in under 1 second each and there's only 9 of them so clearly its about technique and using appropriate tools. Since we started supplying basic extraction tools there have been hardly any complaints regarding the pins.

I still take exception to the notion that the MDC is "much easier" to install. I've done both and its just not true. At least not the "much" part. When you factor in the back breaking position you need to access the pedal and associated cable plus the lack of play in the cable plus the disassembly/reassembly of the speedometer - all things that don't apply to the A451 - I think the honest truth is that overall it is a little quicker, but not necessarily "easier" and certainly not "much" easier. Its different.

As for how long it takes a professional to do the job... right or wrong, take a look at the job books mechanics use. There is a manufacturer's recommended time for any job (change headlights, rotate tires, brake job, whatever) and almost always a professional can and does do it in less time then that book states. Yet they almost ALL bill by that book. Your dentist does the same thing. Plenty of professions do. Is it right? I don't know that it is a question of right or wrong, it just falls into the category of "it is". Even still, just because the actual installation time may be (for example) 45 minutes is that all they should bill for? Or should it be the total time spent on the customer's behalf? That can include preparation (did you leave a bunch of junk in the back? Was it clean?), cleanup, and testing as well as pre/post booking time (again, your dentist does this, so does your computer tech your accountant, etc etc).

I'm likely one of the most, if not the most, experienced cruise control installer on this planet when it comes to smart cars. On average, an Area 451 takes me 40 minutes. An MDC takes me about 35 minutes. I've installed a little over a hundred Area 451s and probably 150 to 175 MDC units (over the past 4 years, all but 3 of those being on 450's but the procedure is identical). Both have variance. I've had Area 451 installs take me as long as 1.5 hours and as little as 23 minutes (my personal record). I've had MDC units take anywhere from 30 minutes to 2 hours. The fast ones are when I have 10 to do all in a row. Most other shops, if any, are not going to have that luxury and they have to setup and tear down specifically for your job when you come in.

I don't know... I think 2 hours is the recommended shop time for any aftermarket electronic cruise install and that's what they go by. And I don't think its too far out there personally. I do understand cubefx's point of view though and I'm not necessarily defending what others charge in terms of saying its "the right price"... just in terms of they're free to charge what they want and you're free to choose to go where you wish.

So to cubefx: you're absolutely entitled to your opinion and I'm sorry if my post indicated otherwise.

chester · 09-21-2009, 02:16 PM

Just got back from Cincinnati Smart dealer after having an Area 451 CC installed. Tested the unit out on I 71 to Sabina, OH. Unit worked well and as instructions said it would. Cost was $499 for the unit and 2 hrs install time.(what ever the local shop rate is).
The dealer manager indicated that the install is warranted for the initial car warranty and that the 451 is warranted by the manufacter for 2yr/24K from day of install.
Cincinnati Smart waited to offer these units until Smart USA indicated not a problem to install the cruise units.
Looking forward to many carefree miles of cruising.

SmartieParts · 09-21-2009, 05:15 PM

Quote:

the 451 is warranted by the manufacter for 2yr/24K from day of install

Actually, for the part its at minimum 2yr/Unlimited.

Quote:

Area 451 Parts Ltd warrants the Area 451 Cruise Control to be free from defects in materials and workmanship for a period of no less than 2 years from the date or purchase. In the event that the part has been installed by a dealership in a new smart car then the warranty will be extended, where applicable, to match the vehicle's warranty including any extended warranty that may exist. In any case, mileage is not a consideration when determining validity of the warranty.

So this means if you buy it from the dealer installed the part will be warranted by Area 451 Parts for as long as your car is warranted by smart. For US owners without an extended warranty that's still 2 years. For Canadian owners that is 4 years (smart Canada's basic warranty). In both cases, it will be extended - for free - to match any extended warranty you purchase from smart.

Really though, it is such a high quality item that I think the warranty wording is almost irrelevant. There's no reason to believe the electronics (about 95% of the cost of the kit) won't outlast your car.

- Steven

Dickay1 · 11-17-2009, 10:04 PM

I had the 451 cruise installed at the Cincy dealer last week. All is going well, frankly I love it.

Did have an occasion today when I slowed down, and pushed it in again, but it didn't work. Had a blinking red light. Waited a few, and pushed it again, works great?

I've had a stroke, and can't work with fine things, so having the dealer install it was my choice. They were very friendly and helpful. Recommend them completely. (It was two hours plus cost of unit).

Dick Bailey

John_H · 11-18-2009, 05:22 AM

The blinking light may have been that you held the switch for the magic half second (?) and restored a previous slower setting.

The blinking occurs under two situations: when you're actively accelerating by pushing in the button or when your speed is higher and the cruise is coasting back down to the set speed.

Also, sometimes a switch might feel pressed but the switch hasn't made contact yet, only needing to be pushed slightly harder.

Congrats on the install!