Interested in performance mods

[lowndex]

As I await my new Smart4two Passion Coupe, I was hoping someone could point me to proven performance modifications: ram air intake, exhaust, custom maps using something like a SCT flash tuner, etc..

Thanks

[SmartPassion]

Exhaust system and air intake is coming. They are in development at the moment.

[Evilution]

Forget the idea of ram air, for the size of the scoop available on a smart you would have to be traveling about 600kmh.

The 451 is not flashable from the OBD.

[brian r]

Originally Posted by Evilution

Forget the idea of ram air, for the size of the scoop available on a smart you would have to be traveling about 600kmh.

The 451 is not flashable from the OBD.

Unless you're looking for a different exhaust note, I don't see the point of any of this. And I have 25 years of experience with tuner cars and aftermarket parts.

What we're dealing with is one liter of normally aspirated displacement. And it's already tuned to run on premium fuel. I'd be surprised if there is more than 5 hp left to extract-without spending thousands of dollars. (And everyone should take a vendor's dyno claims with a big spoon of salt.)

IMO, the best performance money spent will be for a remapped transmission ecu if someone is able to do it.

[Fredvon4]

Brian r

They are able to "tune" the rather conservative fuel sipper from 71 to 84 at the factory with a turbo... simple mods can take that to 94hp and up to 112 HP (think factory authorized Brabus)

A few of my German friends are claiming up to 125 HP with serious boost

They were/are reliably getting 75 to 110 HP out of the 61HP turbo 700cc version

I can take an 80 Cubic inch Big twin Harley motor 1.3L +/- at 64 Factory HP and eek out a legitimate 98 HP normally aspirated with out a bore or stroke change.....

Simple intake valves n springs, cam profile, carb size and tune, head porting work, and fairly wide band exhaust tuning....lit off by a good electronic ignition system... and not really all that expensive once you know the recipe...wink

Bottom line is, this motor design should be able to reliably handle 100~115HP and a few of us are going to test that theory..

Others may option the $10,000 + smartsuki adaptation... and you can make a GSXR 1000 water cooled motor cycle motor build some serious HP grin....OH hell....BSEG! 200+HP smart car is just too wicked to think about

[smartune]

Brian R:

This motor is anemic from the factory, although I don't believe all of the claim I do think that BIG Performance got most of the power that they say they did.

My girlfriends speed triple put out 110hp, naturally aspirated. The motors are similar in design and specs too, with the ST having a larger bore and the smart a longer stroke.

By formula a FI motor *should* make 2x NA power at 1Bar (14.5PSI). This isn't always the case, but it is usually close.

The problem with getting power out of these motors is the fuel/spark management. It's too restrictive.

Turbo choice also plays a role, the stock equipment can only be pushed so far.

This motor should do 110-115 NA, with a turbo and proper prep much more.

-Dan

[brian r]

Originally Posted by Fredvon4

Brian r

They are able to "tune" the rather conservative fuel sipper from 71 to 84 at the factory with a turbo... simple mods can take that to 94hp and up to 112 HP (think factory authorized Brabus)

A few of my German friends are claiming up to 125 HP with serious boost

They were/are reliably getting 75 to 110 HP out of the 61HP turbo 700cc version

I can take an 80 Cubic inch Big twin Harley motor 1.3L +/- at 64 Factory HP and eek out a legitimate 98 HP normally aspirated with out a bore or stroke change.....

Simple intake valves n springs, cam profile, carb size and tune, head porting work, and fairly wide band exhaust tuning....lit off by a good electronic ignition system... and not really all that expensive once you know the recipe...wink

Bottom line is, this motor design should be able to reliably handle 100~115HP and a few of us are going to test that theory..

Others may option the $10,000 + smartsuki adaptation... and you can make a GSXR 1000 water cooled motor cycle motor build some serious HP grin....OH hell....BSEG! 200+HP smart car is just too wicked to think about

I'm not saying that it can't be done; it's going to take a lot of work and most people won't spend the money, so some products that appear will disappear due to lack of sales. Someone has to have enough interest in order to do development work, and while there will be some nice one-off cars, I can't see much of a market for engine internals for the smart. Look at Minis-there's virtually nothing beyond exhausts and "hot air" intakes for the base Cooper, and 95% of what's out there for the "S" is bolt on.

What they do in Germany is often possible because you can get gas at every station that is US 98 octane. I bought some a couple of weeks ago for $8.00 a gallon for an AMG 6.2 I borrowed. That's one reason why smart will never sell a true Brabus model here.

Also, much of what you're saying is based on bikes. Nobody is going to smog pass a new car with modded with carbs. And there's a lot more known about commonly available bike engines than there is about the smart in terms of headwork, and valvetrain parts and setup.

Originally Posted by smartune

By formula a FI motor *should* make 2x NA power at 1Bar (14.5PSI). This isn't always the case, but it is usually close.

The problem with getting power out of these motors is the fuel/spark management. It's too restrictive.

-Dan

I definitely agree with the formula, but the problem is getting reliability and emissions at 2x the original power.

I'll also agree that the key is the ecu, particularly since it makes a mess of the shifting. There's nothing wrong with the Getrag box, it's just programmed for economy. I'm convinced that reprogramming the engine/trans management and a decent exhaust could cut the 0-60 time by 2.5-3 seconds and retain emissions.

[Evilution]

The ECU doesn't shift gears, the 451 has an AMT controller which is seperate. UK and Germany have already got 120bhp from the 71bhp engine with a filter, exhaust, decent set of plugs and a remap.

[Fredvon4]

Brian R

I don't thing we are far apart in our logical thinking... except that I interpreted you first few posts as claiming the 1.0L did not have much potential...

yes the world of aftermarket loves simple bolt on crap that mostly is over hyped and not much real bang for the buck..mainly a lot of noise and placebo effect

Those of us who are true motor heads may have to do some one off mods and tinker with various bolt on kits to find the ones that actually have a bit of potential... next 24 months will be interesting, frustrating and to some extent too expensive

I am most keen to hear when or who gets serious about domestically setting up tuner shops with the resources to include ECU re-mapping...

computer dinking is the real key to unleashing much of the HP potential given any set of suck-bang-push mods

[Doug Thorley Headers]

I agree to fredvon4's post to a certain extent. I disagree partially with the statement that "bolt-on components are over hyped and not much bang for your buck". Some products infact are a waste but some are very productive and necessary. An exhaust system can be very important if you plan on making more power from ANY vehicle. Not letting the engine breath will have definate limitations on power production and fuel mileage. Now I do know that there is some products that are pure hype. Being able to distinguish them is up to the consumer.
I do agree that remapping is a way to make power in CERTAIN situations. The Smart can definately benefit from tweaking. It runs lean to help with emissions and mileage. If you start adding fuel to it you will definately create some power especially with BOLT ON items like a performance exhaust and intake. A downfall of a remap will more than likely be reduced mileage which I believe most people are trying to avoid. An exhaust and intake alone will boost both mileage and power and pay for itself quite quickly in savings.

Nick