What do you guys think about this cold air intake? - Page 5

jetfuel · 11-05-2009, 08:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boeschbuilt

...any intake tube, weather it is made out of plastic, carbon fiber, steel, or kriptonite will eventually be the same temperature. The only difference will be how long it takes to soak up the heat, but after a short amount of time they will all just be sitting there at the same temperature.

...Less dense materials are better insulators....the denser the material, the closer its atoms are together...that means the transfer of energy of one atom to the next is more effective...thus, gases insulate better than liquids, which in turn insulate better than solids.

An interesting fact is that poor conductors of electricity are also poor heat conductors...Wood is a much better insulator than copper...the reason is that metals that conduct electricity allow free electrons to roam through the material...this enhances the transfer of energy from one area to another in the metal...without this ability, the material..like wood..and in this case rubber does not conduct heat well.
...quick test...cut a rubber hose length wise ...place over your arm and heat it up with a torch...how long before you feel the heat and how quick does it cool down?...now...hold a spoon between your fingers and heat it up on one end and let me know...

jetfuel...first aid kit handy...

Smart Enuf · 11-06-2009, 12:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boeschbuilt

...On the subject of the tube getting hot and the whole thing not working anyway. Correct me if Im wrong but if the entire engine bay gets heatsoaked to 160 degrees in 15 minutes or so (just guessing). Then any intake tube, weather it is made out of plastic, carbon fiber, steel, or kriptonite will eventually be the same temperature. The only difference will be how long it takes to soak up the heat, but after a short amount of time they will all just be sitting there at the same temperature.

I don't think it's that simple. If I recall correctly from my college days (admittedly a while ago), the main issue here is heat capacity (the ability to absorb heat) vs. thermal conductivity (ability to transfer heat). Polymers (like the OEM intake and the aftermarket silicone tubes) have a high heat capacity but very low thermal conductivity. This is why many pot holders are now made of silicone materials so the cook doesn't get burned. On the other hand, metals have lower heat capacity than polymers and silicone, but metals have much higher thermal conductivities and therefore higher heat transfer rates (i.e., transfers heat from the outside of the tube to the air inside the tube).

More info: http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sourc...W5x08cxJsxcPcw

It's basically as jetfuel says:

Quote:

Originally Posted by jetfuel

...Less dense materials are better insulators....the denser the material, the closer its atoms are together...that means the transfer of energy of one atom to the next is more effective...thus, gases insulate better than liquids, which in turn insulate better than solids.

An interesting fact is that poor conductors of electricity are also poor heat conductors...Wood is a much better insulator than copper...the reason is that metals that conduct electricity allow free electrons to roam through the material...this enhances the transfer of energy from one area to another in the metal...without this ability, the material..like wood..and in this case rubber does not conduct heat well.
...quick test...cut a rubber hose length wise ...place over your arm and heat it up with a torch...how long before you feel the heat and how quick does it cool down?...now...hold a spoon between your fingers and heat it up on one end and let me know...

jetfuel...first aid kit handy...

**jwight** · 11-06-2009, 05:37 AM

Not a physicist nor do I play one on TV, but I think Matt's point is that all intakes reach the same temp eventually - even the stock setup. So how much heat can they transfer to the moving air flow? Restricted system, air stays in the pipe longer so can pick up more heat. Free flowing system, air moves faster through the pipe, picks up less heat. It seems the only way to really tell would be to measure the inlet air temp at the throttle body.

mvaldes · 11-06-2009, 05:31 PM

Does anyone know the location of the sensor that the Scangauge uses to display air intake temperature? Perhaps it would give us something to use to compare intakes.

SMARTPLUG · 11-07-2009, 07:00 AM

The genius shows once again he is a genius, nice job looks great. Jet if you made the intake out of shuttle heat tiles you would have to worry about the tiles falling off and your smart burning up on reentry to your garage. Lol. But maybe we could use the thin foil blanket they used when they said we went to the moon,It did work much better. just a thought? Bob.

BARNEY O · 11-07-2009, 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SMARTPLUG

The genius shows once again he is a genius, nice job looks great. Jet if you made the intake out of shuttle heat tiles you would have to worry about the tiles falling off and your smart burning up on reentry to your garage. Lol. But maybe we could use the thin foil blanket they used when they said we went to the moon,It did work much better. just a thought? Bob.

If he was a true genius he would have experimented with placement of vent hose while on the dyno. Might of found out something pretty interesting?

Barney O.... nice job,looks great, needs more testing.That's what I think.

Need a foil blanket for my dog

**Wdhitch** · 11-07-2009, 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BARNEY O

If he was a true genius he would have experimented with placement of vent hose while on the dyno. Might of found out something pretty interesting?

Barney O.... nice job,looks great, needs more testing.That's what I think.

Need a foil blanket for my dog

The placement isn't really a big deal. As it's been pointed out before, if you have enough oil and fluid there to make a difference you have bigger issues withe your car.

Hitch.... Tube still dry at 54k miles....

BARNEY O · 11-07-2009, 02:10 PM

WDHITCH, would you please give me thread and post where that was tested or said?

Boeschbuilt · 11-07-2009, 04:14 PM

First off, I am in no way shape or form a genius. It is just a catchy company name that plays on the Smart name.

I really appreciate all of the suggestions, the knowledge base of this forum is pretty amazing.
I fully realize how stainless steel is going to absorb more heat than some other materials. I am going to go ahead and use it anyway, I think it works good and I think it looks cool.

About testing: I have spent quite a bit of money testing my previous air intake. I am just taking what I have learned from testing that system, another system, and some experimental stuff I was trying and coming up with the best design that I can. I am sorry but I won't be putting another Smart car on the dyno for quite a while. I have already learned that these intake systems make more power than stock at all temperatures, so what if the best design makes 8hp and the worst makes 6hp. Its still horsepower and this system will probably be the best bang for the buck.

I have been in the industry for my entire life, I have a college education in high performance automotive, I have been the head tech at big time restoration and prototype shops, also, I was a Nextel Cup car chief for a little while where we tried all kinds of different stuff.

I am just designing from experience and not speculation or wild ideas.