Doc fees are to pay for the preparation and printing of all the forms necessary for the deal. Reynolds & Reynolds - aka LAW Printing - usually is the form printer of choice for most dealerships. Interestingly, they are also the software supplier for about a third of the marquee dealerships nationwide. The forms aren't cheap to print ... and programming the forms costs money for the dealership, too.
As another aside, ReyRey - the printer - doesn't bother to check with ReyRey - the software - when they come up with a new form, so the forms sometimes are so big and so cumbersome that they don't fit in the printers, and they certainly never line up right. They're a PITA to program.
Some states - like California - limit the amount of doc fees (I believe that CA's are $55 max), some states don't.
Now ... to get back to the forms ... Watch how things add up. Programmers from ReyRey are taught to roll miscellaneous fees into certain lines. Doc Fees is a favorite, as not all forms have blank lines for everything that the dealer is charging you. They can't roll the fees into the Monroney price, so the fees have to be "hidden" somewhere else. The way the math works, the dealer knows the Monroney, they know the OTD price. They then subtract everything that appears on the form including the selling price, and whatever amount is left over is pushed onto the "doc fee" or other line.
So, Meat, what are these other fees? When I got to F&I the guy turned and showed me the screen.
Yeah ... but you don't know exactly what that screen shows. And, more importantly, there's a second screen that the dealer didn'y show you that lists additional fees - breaking them out on separate lines so the dealer's accountant knows where to apply the fees.
On my bill of sale it is listed as "accessory" and I was charged tax on it also!
Then it sounds like they added an accessory to the car ** you should take the bill of sale in and ask for written documentation for what this "accessory" is.
Obviously not a dead horse Jeepster. This thread was started by a new smartie who has just discovered the problem.
This type of information is PARTICULARLY pertinent now since the new configurers are able to choose the dealership to which thier car is delivered. Bluesmart&911 could have gone to one of the other New York Dealerships, who all charge 50.00 or less for the doc fee if he had known.
Jeepster, I thought that we had agreed to disagree on this topic. I asked Matt the other day about getting you an orphan. Do you think I should stop? Is the subject of you getting an orphan a dead horse?
Meaux
No..it's NOT! As long as there are CROOKS in the world, this remains an issue! Sure, many of us have seen it before. Some of us, however, are brand new...and deserve their own opportunity to voice their own concerns about being ripped off! To these new people to the group, I say: GO GET THEM!!;)
Obviously not a dead horse Jeepster. This thread was started by a new smartie who has just discovered the problem.
This type of information is PARTICULARLY pertinent now since the new configurers are able to choose the dealership to which thier car is delivered. Bluesmart&911 could have gone to one of the other New York Dealerships, who all charge 50.00 or less for the doc fee if he had known.
Jeepster, I thought that we had agreed to disagree on this topic. I asked Matt the other day about getting you an orphan. Do you think I should stop? Is the subject of you getting an orphan a dead horse?
Meaux
Are we missing something here? All the other NY centers are at $50 or below; this dealership is at $349. Does NY cap their doc fees, because if not, why would the other dealers be so low?
To all of those smarties just starting to face dealer doc fees:
1. This issue has been beat to death on this board for over 4 months now. I realize it may be new to you but it has been discussed and tracked ad nauseum for a very long time.
2. I was one of the instigators or these threads originally as my assigned dealer was Orlando and their original fees were $799.
3. IF YOU BELIEVE THESE FEES VIOLATE PENSKE"S COMMITTMENT TO MSRP then you need to be as upset at a $50 fee as an $800 fee as both would be violations under your thought process.
4. The fact is that these fees are customary and regular in the automobile business in all states and have nothing to do with the automobile manufacturer or the distributor. They are dealer fees and they are either capped by your state or they are not capped and are left up to each dealer.
5. I was responsible for getting the Orlando fees reduced from $799 to $499. My argument was never the gross amount of the fee, my argument was that I had no control over which dealer I was assigned to and Orlando's fees were much higher than those of other smart car dealers IN THE STATE OF FLORIDA. I felt they should be no higher than others in the same state.
6. I made this case to the Orlando dealer and I made this case to Dave Schembri at smart USA. Dave called the dealer and suggested he thought my point was valid and they agreed to reduce their fee.
7. I live in Florida by choice. You likely live where you live by choice as well. Not all states are created equal. States have different income tax rates, states have different sales tax rates, states have different average housing costs, insurance costs, gas taxes etc etc. Where I live I either find a balance of good and bad I can live with or I move to another state.
8. Your issue is with your dealer and with the state. If the fees overall in your state are higher than you think they should be you should work to change them through the state government. If a single dealer in your state is higher than others in your state you should approach them with a reasoned discussion and you may be able to get them changed.
9. Due to my voice as well as others on this forum we did force the change that will now allow a change of dealerships during the configuration process. I realize this may be too late for some of you but it is a good change and will allow others more control over the fees paid issue.
10. I ended up paying fees of $499, much higher than many other states but fair for the state in which I live and I am satisfied with that and with the fact I caused some changes that have since saved others money.
11. You have a right to take any position you wish with regard to these fees but in my opinion IT IS NOT smart USA's issue. If you are unhappy:
a) Complain to your state government
b) Complain to your dealer
c) try to change your delivery to a dealer of your choice
d) make a new reservation with a different address and zip code
e) buy an orphan from any dealer you wish
f) buy your smart on e-bay for a significant premium.
But for goodness sake do something rather than threatening to sue somebody or waiting for someone else to solve the problem for you.
The fees are extra profit. So what? Profit is not a dirty word. You have a choice, buy it or don't buy it or initiate a change through the democratic process.
Sorry for what may be seen as a rant. It's not that I don't think that some of you have a legitimate gripe, it's that I think your target for blame and your approach to a solution is misdirected.
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2008 Smart Passion
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2003 Chevrolet Corvette Z06
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