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#21 (permalink) Old 06-26-2008, 06:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Westfield 11 View Post
Exactly right, 80 to 90% of the price run-up is due to the Federal Reserves actions last fall and winter.
Do you meen the FED or the Federal Reserve? Refresh me on what the Federal Reserve did.
Never mind, found it here http://www.forbes.com/forbes/2007/0917/023.html

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Originally Posted by Westfield 11 View Post
You can thank W and his cronies for this disaster. There hasn't been a new refinery opened in the US for 35 years, this despite 6 years of Republican control of the Congress and White House. The oil companies have been CLOSING refineries for years due to low profit margins leaving the little guys like Tesoro who buy oil on the open market to produce gasoline.
Don't even go there, there was an 8 year admin. ahead of them that didn't do anythinng either.

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Originally Posted by Westfield 11 View Post
If the oil companies really wanted to increase capacity they had their boys in charge for long enough to do so. Watch their actions, do not listen to their words.
Agreed, I have to ask why the oil companies would want to increase capacity. Shortages result in higher prices, thus more profits. Ask yourself how many regulations have been passed by Congress making construction of new refineries cost prohibitive? How many environmental laws prohibit exploration? What is really gettting in the way and where is the big money that is driving it? I wonder where George Soros has his money invested? (health care, only 1.1 % in oil and gas) sorosoilpricetestimony6308.pdf

Last edited by Dunerunner; 06-26-2008 at 07:10 PM.
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#22 (permalink) Old 06-26-2008, 07:30 PM
 
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I think that the smart can get better mpg. They can get 50 to 60 mpg in Europe I know it's a different motor but there are things that will improve this motors mpg. ie. all the smog gadgets could be removed and that muffler that allows better hp.

Can't we think beyond the color of the car and the toys that we can install and work on mpg. Is the rest of the world concerned about smog? Why is the smart in Europe getting 50 and 60mpg?

Don't carry around unnessary excess weight and only half fill the tank it cuts down on the weight as well. Just think, how do we get the wireing diagrams and smog information. Would a slightly larger diameter tire increase distance per rotation of the axle? Ok I heard that it would throw off the speedometer but that can be recalibrated. How far from a red traffic light must you take your foot off the gas in order to maximize the coast to a stop at the light. and at what speeds verses distance from the light.

lets work on something to improve our own well being help is not going to come from the government, oil companies, car manufactures or any other out side source.

Until someone invents a new motor or fuel we are going to get the worse of this and we need to help ourselves.
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#23 (permalink) Old 06-26-2008, 07:36 PM
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Richard, I'm not up on the 450's and the milage the petrol motors are getting. Where can I find that they are getting 50 - 60 mpg? I do agree, Hypermile....and help yourself! What I found at http://www.onsmart.co.uk/phpBB2/sear...&submit=Search was that the CIDs are getting 65 - 85 mpg. Let's get 'em over here!!!

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#24 (permalink) Old 06-26-2008, 07:44 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Westfield 11 View Post
Exactly right, 80 to 90% of the price run-up is due to the Federal Reserves actions last fall and winter, this caused a collapse in the value of the dollar. Since most of the stuff foreigners want to buy these days comes from Europe and Asia, they needed more dollars to stay in the same place. Thus the price increase.

You can thank W and his cronies for this disaster. There hasn't been a new refinery opened in the US for 35 years, this despite 6 years of Republican control of the Congress and White House. The oil companies have been CLOSING refineries for years due to low profit margins leaving the little guys like Tesoro who buy oil on the open market to produce gasoline.

If the oil companies really wanted to increase capacity they had their boys in charge for long enough to do so. Watch their actions, do not listen to their words.
We can thank "W and his cronies" that no new refinery has been opened in the US for 35 years? Really? I didn't think he'd been in office that long, though the haters will swear that it has felt like it. Who can you truly blame for no new refineries? Blame the environmentalists, who converge from all four corners with lawsuits and the need for environmental impact studies and endangered species claims the moment a word is breathed about building a refinery in "their backyard." As you noted, running refineries does not have the profit margin that people like to associate with the "evil" oil companies, and certainly you would not expect a company to operate its business at a loss out of the goodness of its heart and your need to fill your tank at what you consider a reasonable price.

In protest of the mere mention of drilling offshore recently, the CA environmentalists had pictures from the 1968 oil spill on their protest signs. The assumption there, I guess, is that technology in the past 40 years has not made the prospect of offshore drilling any safer than it was then.

Oh, and drilling in ANWR wouldn't bring more oil into the market for ten years, so why bother? Well, that was the argument 10 years ago, and if we had ignored the critics then, perhaps it would be helping the situation now. But if you insist on seeing conspiracy around every turn, I'm sure you can always pick through the data and repeat the facts that support your view and ignore those which don't. Or you can take the truly intellectually lazy path and just blame it on the President..."and his cronies."
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#25 (permalink) Old 06-26-2008, 08:03 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Dunerunner View Post
we could open up exploration here (something we should have been doing 10 years ago) and increase the supply side in the US
Other than a portion of U.S. seas in the Gulf of Mexico, U.S. law currently prohibits exploration, much less exploitation, of any oil from U.S. seas. The U.S. has 12,383 miles of coastline... there is oil for generations under our seas, yet politicians and environmentalists don't let us use our own oil.

Last year Congress set in place a moratorium on exploitation of the massive oil shales of Colorado and Utah and Democrats just re-confirmed the ban. That oil is at least equivalent to 120 years of oil imports from Saudi Arabia.

Oil from ANWR in Alaska is equivalent to 25 years of U.S. imports from Saudi Arabia. Had Congress not blocked ANWR a decade ago, we could be saying our bye-byes to the Saudis today.
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#26 (permalink) Old 06-26-2008, 08:43 PM
 
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Originally Posted by kwagar View Post
CNN-Oil hits new record high today at $140 with OPEC indicating it could go to $170 this summer.

That's not likely to slow down smart car reservations in the short term.

These gas prices aren't good for anyone but they sure make us look "smart"
I say let it go to 7-8 a gallon, that will take about 10-12million vehichles off the road and leave more room for us smart people aside from the fact that it is 95 degrees, 90percent humidity, driving from 1350 feet to 600feet and back up averaging around 63mph fpr 59 mile trip and still getting 43-47 MPG.!!
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#27 (permalink) Old 06-26-2008, 11:20 PM
 
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it's the falling dollar that's wracking the most havoc...but, don't worry too much about it...Venezuela, Iran, and even our pals the al'Saud family are all working towards pegging OPEC transactions to the Euro...

looks like my "$5.00 per gallon before July 4" prediction is coming true: just spotted $4.99 premium 91 over at the Valero station today...

Mr Chavez (Venezuela dictator) was not bluffing , he will do what he can to see that Mr Bush faces $8.00 per gallon pump prices by the end of his term...

...and, no one here has mentioned "peak oil" yet? Maybe that has something to do with the current state of affairs?

i like the mpg of the smart, but it won't be truly smart until an all-electric plug-in version is available. What features do I want? Regenerative braking, solar trickle charging film embeded in the plexi roof, 250 mile range at 70mph, 6 hour recharge, and optional extender battery packs for even greater range...maybe even a "micro" recharge engine flex-fueled...for emergency recharge...something like a 10cc single piston gasoline/deisel/alcohol hooked to a micro generator...

i am so sick of traditional gasoline engines, i could puke...gasoline engines suck
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#28 (permalink) Old 06-27-2008, 04:37 AM
 
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Mr. Unpopularity

I realize this is going to go over like a turd in the punchbowl, but gas SHOULD be $5 per gallon or even more. It's been that high in Europe for decades and that has led to mass transit that's faster than driving, high speed long distance trains, bike-only roads that go everywhere (even cross-country), and compact cities without suburban sprawl.

Gas has been too cheap here for too long. When more than half the vehicles sold in this country are SUVs that weigh 2-4 tons, commutes averaging over 45 minutes one-way, obesity rampant, and mass transit made impractical by disgusting sprawl, it's a sign to America to wake up and get with the program. That's without mentioning global warming. America leads the world in greenhouse gas production even though we have a small fraction of the world's population. Cheap gas was a temporary, unsustainable lifestyle that is the direct cause of many of this country's problems. The future will be different.

This isn't going to be a popular stance, so let your vitriolic replies fly! But you're not going to make me think I'm wrong.
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#29 (permalink) Old 06-27-2008, 04:44 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red_fortwo View Post
We can thank "W and his cronies" that no new refinery has been opened in the US for 35 years? Really? I didn't think he'd been in office that long, though the haters will swear that it has felt like it. Who can you truly blame for no new refineries? Blame the environmentalists, who converge from all four corners with lawsuits and the need for environmental impact studies and endangered species claims the moment a word is breathed about building a refinery in "their backyard." As you noted, running refineries does not have the profit margin that people like to associate with the "evil" oil companies, and certainly you would not expect a company to operate its business at a loss out of the goodness of its heart and your need to fill your tank at what you consider a reasonable price.

In protest of the mere mention of drilling offshore recently, the CA environmentalists had pictures from the 1968 oil spill on their protest signs. The assumption there, I guess, is that technology in the past 40 years has not made the prospect of offshore drilling any safer than it was then.

Oh, and drilling in ANWR wouldn't bring more oil into the market for ten years, so why bother? Well, that was the argument 10 years ago, and if we had ignored the critics then, perhaps it would be helping the situation now. But if you insist on seeing conspiracy around every turn, I'm sure you can always pick through the data and repeat the facts that support your view and ignore those which don't. Or you can take the truly intellectually lazy path and just blame it on the President..."and his cronies."
Very well said! And "NO", I am not too lazy to come up with my own rant. I am at work and don't have time to type all of that.

Meat - I think you may have missed the point a little. Your post is spot on, however I think the post you were responding to about SUVs being dumb was referring more to the use by soccer moms for daily commute than to the utilitarian value of the vehicles themselves.
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#30 (permalink) Old 06-27-2008, 08:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WickedMessenger View Post
I realize this is going to go over like a turd in the punchbowl, but gas SHOULD be $5 per gallon or even more. It's been that high in Europe for decades and that has led to mass transit that's faster than driving, high speed long distance trains, bike-only roads that go everywhere (even cross-country), and compact cities without suburban sprawl.

Gas has been too cheap here for too long. When more than half the vehicles sold in this country are SUVs that weigh 2-4 tons, commutes averaging over 45 minutes one-way, obesity rampant, and mass transit made impractical by disgusting sprawl, it's a sign to America to wake up and get with the program. That's without mentioning global warming. America leads the world in greenhouse gas production even though we have a small fraction of the world's population. Cheap gas was a temporary, unsustainable lifestyle that is the direct cause of many of this country's problems. The future will be different.

This isn't going to be a popular stance, so let your vitriolic replies fly! But you're not going to make me think I'm wrong.
No argument here - high gas prices (along with their taxes) forced the EU countries to develop more efficient cars long ago. And they are not all 40 hp econoboxes. Europe has some of the best small high performance vehicles available anywhere, yet the parent companies (GM, Ford and that other one) can't seem to figure out how to do the same thing in this country. The free market is deciding, right now, if the US car industry will survive; not sure if Detroit sees it happening or not.
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