Let see, wait, what? YOURE A DAD?! i wonder how you taught your kids!!! (jk)
However he sees fit, no parent teaches like the other. Take my mom & and dad, she's trying her best to convince me not to get a smart because it's not a "cool" car. My dad on the other hand, could care less and thinks that they are nice little cars.
Then again, even in her efforts to stop me from getting a smart, she's taken a liking to a Blue/Silver cabrio in which is my current desktop.
Panda is having a competition with this thread...Why, I really don't know...
"Frank and Alan" (fts1966) from the MO-KAN smart Club. They're really great guys and have an awesome looking Gray Cabriolet with chrome, chrome and more chrome. SWEET!
The science as to why some people are gay is contradictory. Some studies suggest a genetic link, but other studies of identical twins have found cases where one is straight and the other is gay. All I can say about those who are gay is that we have something of a mystery on our hands and human behavior is very complex
I think the end result will be that there's more than one element. I think genetically that sexuality is not set, but rather is an inclination. How strong that genetic inclination is varies from person to person, and can be influenced by genetic clusters and/or social factors.
Not to draw a direct comparison, but consider the gene set that causes alcoholism. For some people/races it's much more prevalent and/or stronger than others based on genetic make up. You can also become an alcholic purely by choice, or through social factors, with no genetic influence. In families that carry the genetic trait, it can be strong in one sibling and weak in another. And because there are social and environmental elements at play, the outcome can even be different in the case of twins.
So is sexuality a choice or genetic? For some it's choice, for some it's genetic, for most it's a mixture of both. If that genetic pull is super strong, there's little to no choice involved. If it's weak (in the case of bisexuals that take a gay partner for example) then it's more of a choice. But even when it is a choice, it's just as valid as is the choice to be a Christian, a Muslim, or what have you. We protect people's lifestyle choices all the time, this one should be no different.
And for those that would make the argument that one should be in a life long struggle against homosexual tendencies like one would for alcoholism, let me cut you off before you start. As a child of an alcoholic, and an alcoholic myself, I can tell you that embracing alcoholism can do nothing but destroy your life, and the lives of those around you. It never leads to happiness in any way, even when one is drunk or off the wagon. Embracing homosexuality, on the other hand, CAN lead to happiness and builds the lives of those around you, including friends and family. I've seen, and know it's just as good as every other straight relationship I've seen.
I think the end result will be that there's more than one element.
I think you are right. I know from most of my gay friends though, that its not a choice. You can choose to be christian or muslim or which every religion you want, but I doubt anyone who is gay would choose to be so. Life is hard enough, without having the added fear of being gay. I was brought up as a christian, and I hated all the feelings I had. But I had them, and to be happy with myself, I had to do something, much to my parents disapproval.
When I came out, and elder came round to see me. He had looked into the reason that the faith I was part of, and they had two reason why someone can be gay.
1. My dad wasnt a good father figure to me. However, I was brought up no different to my brother, and he was married to the elder's daughter...or
2. I was abused as a child. which i wasnt.
And that was it for why I was gay!
Anyway, as you said woody, I am much happier in who I am now, and in a very loving happy relationship, that I wouldnt change for the world! I'm fortunate that I have some great friends, that dispite my family, supported me through the tough time of coming out. The company I work for is run by a married couple, and they treat me like their son, which is a great help as well.
Alcoholism is an awful thing, I hope you are managing to deal with it ok. My grandad was as well, it eventually killed him sadly because he had no desire to sort it out. My brother also has problems with drinking. He has dealt with it now, and is all the better for it.
Wow! This has been a deep conversation. I have to say I couldn't agree with you more. There are many factors, but one thing is for sure - we are born this way. It's not something you 'become'. It is something you begin to accept in your life as you get older and discover the person of the same sex is more attractive then the person of the opposite sex. It's really that simple. The choice in a gay person's life is whether we accept that we ARE gay or not.
I don't really think the why is all that important. I also don't believe that any God would create mistakes.
I speak for 34+ years of experience on the matter. I have diagnosed it in my personal life to bits and this is the final - simplest conclusion I have logically come to.
The choice in a gay person's life is whether we accept that we ARE gay or not.
You hit the nail on the head.
I'm fortunate to have very understanding parents. Much moreso than I gave them credit for - had I known better - I think it may have had some bearing on me not waiting to come out to them until age 21. That being said, I look back and I don't think I could/would have done anything different given my situation.
For more than a year I've kept my mouth SHUT on this thread, because I could be referred to as a homophobe (despite the fact that I have a daughter who is gay and came out to us several years ago). However, I am a "live and let live" kind of person. I strongly object to having "gayness" shoved down my throat. You can have your "gay pride" parades as long as I can have a "straight pride" parade and am allowed to jam my straightness down YOUR throat!
That is the beauty of being gay over most of the other things people choose to discriminate against - most of us can hide it for as long as we feel we need to. I knew I was gay at about age 6 or 7. I never told anyone until I was practically an adult. I was in the same situation - I thought I could because my parent was also very understanding, but there was a factor of fear, its always that 'what if' factor that keeps most of us in the closet. Now - If ya know, ya know, if ya don't ya don't - I don't hide it, but I don't broadcast it either. I told a lady I work with that "closets were for clothes - not people".
Each gay person has to deal with this according to thier own situation - some I think never come out, then there are some that never accept who they are, get married and in general live very unhappy lives always missing something. These are the Ted Haggards of the world...
Side note - I grew up (well to the age of 6) in Glenbernie, MD. Its been a long time since I have been back. I miss home sometimes.
Last edited by bradgarbus; 09-03-2009 at 11:54 AM.
doenut - It's okay. I agree. I hate the pride parades myself. I think it shows off the 'stereo type' that is the extreme of what most of us really are. I personally have been with my partner (monogmously) for almost 8 years. We own our home together and for all intents and purposes live as a married couple. We are very quiet and do not beleive in showing affection publicly. Then again - this is our choice, some in the gay community don't agree, but I too am a live and let live person. I understand the reason for the pride parades, but I also understand the way many people feel about them - as I do. Just remember we are more alike than we are different.
Take care my friend.
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