YOU Smart owners are to blame!!

[cosmart]

1) There is not oil "for generations" on the US coastline. Even the American Petroleum Institute doesn't claim that. In fact, according to the API's most optimistic projections, tapping every single onshore AND offshore off limits area in the US(including ANWR) and pumping every drop would amount to the quantity of oil used by the US in 15 years. Then we would have none.

2) There is no viable large scale technology for synthesizing oil from shale without putting more energy into the process than you can get out of the oil extracted. Positive EROEI has been claimed for some small processes, but these have not been scaled to commercial size. Large scale production would take every drop of unused water in the Colorado basin. "Oil" shale does not contain oil, it contains kerogen, which must be then converted to crude, which THEN can be refined into gasoline.

Oil from shale has been the next big oil supply for over 50 years. Tens of billions of dollars have been vaporized trying to get it to be a viable source of energy. As the price of natural gas and electricity rises, the price of oil from shale rises because they are huge inputs into the process. The only pie in the sky plans for getting 1 million barrels a day out of shale involves building a huge reservoir to hold the water needed, a nuclear power plant to provide the electricity, and a huge kerogen processing and waste water treatment facility. Hundreds of billions of dollars.

3) The mean projection for oil flow out of ANWR peaks at 1 million barrels a day. This is a peak, and it is 20 years out. The US uses 20 Million barrels a day currently. The estimated impact on worldwide oil price is about $1.50 a barrel. We currently import 1.5 million barrels a day from Saudi Arabia. This data is all from US government websites. Where did you get your information?

Crude Oil and Total Petroleum Imports Top 15 Countries

Potential Oil Production from the Coastal Plain of the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge: Updated Assessment

[vwW12]

Originally Posted by cosmart

I call BS

Today, we import nearly 61 percent of our oil, with 12.1 percent coming from the Persian Gulf. And both figures continue to increase. The ANWR's 2 million b/d would roughly equal the amount the United States imports from Saudi Arabia and Kuwait combined -- no small step toward reducing our import dependence.

Source: Environmentalists Play Slick With Statistics About ANWR Oil Reserves.

Shouldn't call it when you are producing it.

[jwight]

Originally Posted by mmmeat

Well, since they're not allowed to explore or drill anywhere thanks to Congress and the EPA, what else should they do with their money?

Can't very well be pissed off at them for not spending money on exploring when you've already told them not to explore.

Your pal,
Meat.

Are you including the oil leases they own but have yet to drill on? Nothing stopping them there.

[jwight]

Separate subject, but while the oil companies (and their buddies in DC) are trying to open up more land for drilling, the US is still exporting petroleum products at over one and a half billion barrels a day.

ANALYSIS-US oil firms seek drilling access, but exports soar - Forbes.com

[mmmeat]

Originally Posted by jwight

Are you including the oil leases they own but have yet to drill on? Nothing stopping them there.

...except for lack of oil or natural gas in appreciable quantities.

And - even if oil is found in large quantities - the leases cannot be developed until environmental studies by the EPA are completed and permits issued by the federal government. And the EPA tends to place idiotic restrictions on the drilling.

So, yeah, there's PLENTY stopping them there: the EPA and Congress.

Your pal,
Meat.

[SmartCard]

(while an enlightening discussion, moving it to the off-topic cafe since it doesn't really involve the smart)

[cosmart]

Originally Posted by vwW12

Today, we import nearly 61 percent of our oil, with 12.1 percent coming from the Persian Gulf. And both figures continue to increase. The ANWR's 2 million b/d would roughly equal the amount the United States imports from Saudi Arabia and Kuwait combined -- no small step toward reducing our import dependence.

Source: Environmentalists Play Slick With Statistics About ANWR Oil Reserves.

Shouldn't call it when you are producing it.

Did you even bother reading the post? Did you happen to notice the source? The US government and the API, which is the OIL COMPANIES' PR. There is so much BS blowing around about US oil reserves it is sickening. All the numbers are on the EIA website. Read it.

If you read the API documents, they always spin it into talking points that confused people will regurgitate improperly. For example, they say there is enough oil in the US fo "60 million cars for 60 years". Guess what? We have 240 Million cars. So why did they not say "240 million cars for 15 years"? Well, 15 years would scare people, and most people are too lazy to look up the fact that there are actually 240 million cars. So, people read it and tell others that they read "we have enough oil for 60 years".

Go read all of the OFFICIAL information about ANWR. ANWR, not the entire north slope, much of which IS ALREADY OPEN TO DRILLING. You might notice there is no oil coming out of there. Why would that be?

Your website? What body cavity did they pull 2 mbpd out of?

[jwight]

Originally Posted by mmmeat

...except for lack of oil or natural gas in appreciable quantities.

And - even if oil is found in large quantities - the leases cannot be developed until environmental studies by the EPA are completed and permits issued by the federal government. And the EPA tends to place idiotic restrictions on the drilling.

So, yeah, there's PLENTY stopping them there: the EPA and Congress.

Your pal,
Meat.

Pretty hard to argue with - guess somebody held a gun to their collective heads and made them bid on leases without oil and gas in appreciable quantities? Sounds more like bad business to me.

Yeah, the nasty ol' EPA, trying to keep those yummy by products out of our ground water - what's the matter with those guys? How bad can a little petroleum in your coffee be? But seriously, folks, if the oil companies had started the process to get the necessary approvals (same process everyone in the US has to follow) years ago, they'd have the permits and approvals and be off and running.

Bottom line is drilling is a dead end - 7 to 10 years before any impact on our own oil supplies; by then we can be on the way to alternative sources, much higher mpg vehicles, and much less dependency on foreign oil sources. If this is a matter of national security, as we're told, that should be our highest priority at this point - not figuring out how we can continue to drive our Hummers for the next 10 years.

[jwight]

Originally Posted by SmartCard

(while an enlightening discussion, moving it to the off-topic since it doesn't really involve the smart)

Do we have a "really way off topic" section yet?

[mmmeat]

Originally Posted by jwight

Pretty hard to argue with - guess somebody held a gun to their collective heads and made them bid on leases without oil and gas in appreciable quantities?

There's no way of knowing if there's oil in appreciable quantities until you explore the lease. And you can't explore the lease until you get it.

Originally Posted by jwight

Yeah, the nasty ol' EPA, trying to keep those yummy by products out of our ground water - what's the matter with those guys? How bad can a little petroleum in your coffee be? But seriously, folks, if the oil companies had started the process to get the necessary approvals (same process everyone in the US has to follow) years ago, they'd have the permits and approvals and be off and running.

Leases are granted on land that doesn't have potable water, or water that is part of any groundwater system that feeds to human use. So that argument doesn't fly.

But seriously, jwight, the oil companies have continued 'the process to get the necessary approvals' since oil was first discovered. So, yeah, they've been in 'the process' since 'years ago.'

Originally Posted by jwight

Bottom line is drilling is a dead end - 7 to 10 years before any impact on our own oil supplies;

If we start today we'd have oil at refineries in three years - barring EPA interference.

If we start tomorrow, it'll be more than three years.

If we start the day after that, it'll be more than that.

It's idiotic to believe that the moritoriums set in place by the Clinton administration are necessary. It's specifically because of that that we do not have oil today.

If we'd been allowed to drill three years ago, we'd have oil today. The argument that 'drilling today won't help us for years' is short-sighted to the point of blindness. If we don't start drilling today, it absolutely won't help us three years from now. Duh.

Originally Posted by jwight

by then we can be on the way to alternative sources,

We have alternative sources. We've had alternative sources for years. Solar and wind have been around for decades. In order to have a viable wind or solar source, we have to have in place a backup system that can supply 90% of what those systems are supposed to deliver ready to turn on at all times.

The electric car has been on the road and removed. Why? People don't want them. Yeah, some might, but those are the minority...a minority so tiny that it's insignificant.

Originally Posted by jwight

and much less dependency on foreign oil sources.

Hard to believe that there are people who can say in one sentence that "drilling today won't help us," and in the next they say "we need less dependency on foreign oil."

It's like the "Fight Global Warming" crowd; the globe is bigger than they are, and will always win the fight.

Oil isn't going away. It's been around since before we were here, and it'll be around after we're gone. We just need to drill for it.

Your pal,
Meat.