Of course. I'm surprised that people still think this is an issue.
A reasonable cost for that service should have been about $80-90. An owner could do the same service for a little more than half that figure.
Have you priced out the Cabin filter and Engine air filter after market?
While $400 is out of line, $150 - $200 with labor is not.
To get the parts to do everything yourself for a 20K service
4 Quart Synth Motor Oil
Oil Filter
Cabin Filter
Engine air Filter
2 Batteries for Keys.
will run close to $100
Remember, they also change the brake fluid, not something im ready to DIY untill someone posts a Video showing me how
Last edited by forestacademy; 11-21-2009 at 09:03 PM.
Well I haven't got to 20k but I just did the 10k which ran 168.00 the additional 70.00 for balancing wheels. Crazy amount for 3 cylinder car. I will do the required maintenance at the dealer till the warranty is done, which will be in about 5 months. I'm not handy and after working in the car business previously I do know that dealers have some leeway on covering marginal warranty calls. If you are at 26000 miles and the dealer knows you ie can look and see if you get you work done there they might work harder to get the factory to cover it. Also the manufactures have phantom recalls. Meaning they don't send out an official recall but they know they have a issue. I know the Japenese mfg are big on doing this.If you go to the dealer they will fix it because the mfg is paying for it. If you never go to the dealer one you may pay for it somewhere else or pay for doing it yourself. Subaru fixed CV joints and boots, Nissan fixed bad tail light housing and bulbs, fixed back window of mini van all for free becuase the mfg knew they had problems with those items, saved me more that 1000 bucks.
Of course. I'm surprised that people still think this is an issue.
You, or any one else, can do all maintenance on the car, never go to a dealership, and the warranty will still be in effect.
The onus regarding the warranty is on the part of the manufacturer. Warranty is required by law. The time a warranty must be in effect is variable though and mostly at the discretion of the manufacturer. We all pay for these parts and manufacturing defect warranties, by the way, in the purchase prices of the vehicles. The dealership has nothing to do with warranty issues except to exact repairs when necessary. As long as you do not abuse your car, maintain it properly (it would be obvious if engine part failure was due to an oil issue which is rare unless oil is never changed), there will be no warranty issues. It's important that failure of a part be due to defects in material or manufacturing, and not due to misuse and abuse of the owner. In fact, if you never changed the oil, and a repair was required that had nothing to do with oil changes (the alternator for example), then the part at fault will have to be replaced under warranty.
Dealerships are fond of using scare tactics related to warranties because that influences owners to take the cars back for service. Obviously, with the exhorbitant prices being charged for simple and quick service, these maintenance services are very profitable for dealerships. Of course they have to turn a profit to stay in business but they are price gouging here, particularly for an inexpensive car such as the smart. One rationale for charging such high prices is that service is required only once a year or at long mileage intervals.
The dealership we bought the car from recently mailed out a flyer advertising what they do and their rate for routine service. They had a list of 42 items and a cost of about $200. That list was for a basic oil change and everything else was just a check list. A competent owner would be aware of almost everything listed anyway. A reasonable cost for that service should have been about $80-90. An owner could do the same service for a little more than half that figure.
True.
1. Purchase new car.
2. Perform manufacturer-specified maintenance on your own.
3. File your documentation (...receipts for fluids/filters, etc.)
4. Note date and mileage you performed said maintenance.
5. Return to dealership only for warranty and TSB issues.
Have you priced out the Cabin filter and Engine air filter after market?
While $400 is out of line, $150 - $200 with labor is not.
To get the parts to do everything yourself for a 20K service
4 Quart Synth Motor Oil
Oil Filter
Cabin Filter
Engine air Filter
2 Batteries for Keys.
will run close to $100
Remember, they also change the brake fluid, not something im ready to DIY untill someone posts a Video showing me how
The price I noted did not include the cabin filter or brake fluid changes or anything else except merely an oil and filter change and a long list of checks - even so, I said that the service should be $80-90 which would give the dealership a very good profit margin.
Your thinking that $150-200 labour charge is reasonable for the service you spoke of - my opinion is that it isn't. That's about a two hour labour charge but the service would not take that long. Also, the cost of parts to you is not the same as the cost of parts to the dealership. There is a healthy profit margin factored into those rates. Of course, that's where dealerships make their money.
Nontheless, by your example, an owner can easily do the same service for 25% of the cost of service at the dealership. That may not be reasonable. 50% of the dealer cost might be, however, which means that the dealer is price gouging smart owners for their services. They are costed at rates suitable for cars ranging at 3 to 6 times the value of the smart, or more.
One of the problems in these discussions is the fact that most owners of smart cars are not very mechanically aware or technically proficient. As you indicated, you don't know how to replace brake fluid. I do that as well as all other maintenance and repair on all my vehicles. I know the effort, knowledge, and time required to do these jobs, particularly when lifts and all tools and equipment is readily available.
If you don't know how or don't want to do the work then you must pay the cost of service. It really does not have to be done by the dealership if price of service is an objection. If you don't care or think the pricing is suitable, then the dealer will happily service your car.
The simple fact of the matter is that the cost of service on smarts by dealerships is not in proportion to the value of the car or the expectations of owners. Service costs need to be adjusted to reflect that.
Have you given consideration to the cost of ownership after the warranty expires considering the high service costs?
I'm 33k miles out of the warranty.... 57k total. Other than oil changes and replacing things that are supposed to be replaced like brake pads there hasn't been a glitch yet.
The huge repair bills haven't shown up... If you buy the oil yourself and an aftermarket filter, most local oil change joints will change it for $15 to $20. Brake pads can be done outside the dealership as well. The fluid doesn't need to be flushed until you change the pads... and that comes from techs at 2 different smart dealerships.
The huge repair bills haven't shown up... If you buy the oil yourself and an aftermarket filter, most local oil change joints will change it for $15 to $20. Brake pads can be done outside the dealership as well. The fluid doesn't need to be flushed until you change the pads... and that comes from techs at 2 different smart dealerships.
I have to wonder if that crazy # for brake fluid change comes from Europe where the smarts do a lot more braking in the city traffic. Because as we all know, It is a city car.
And those with 50K in the first two years must be using them as Taxis. Because that is the only way you can get that kind of mileage doing just city driving
Most cars never require a brake fluid change, let alone at 20k. I wonder if something about their brake system allows water into the brake fluid. I'm not at 20k yet, but I wonder what the boiling point of the fluid is at 20k vs new. Does anyone know what kind of brake fluid they use?
Most cars never require a brake fluid change, let alone at 20k. I wonder if something about their brake system allows water into the brake fluid. I'm not at 20k yet, but I wonder what the boiling point of the fluid is at 20k vs new. Does anyone know what kind of brake fluid they use?
Apparently you aren't familiar with this either. Brake fluid changes are required with all cars.
Brake fluid is hygroscopic. It will absorb moisture and when it does the boiling point if the fluid is lowered which can result in loss of brakes at a time when theyare needed most. Water vapour can enter the system in a variety of ways. The reason it is designed to absorb moisture is so that water will not pool in areas of the system and cause corrosion. Nontheless, if not changed there will be corrosion since the fluid also contains anti-corrosion additives which become depleted with time.
The normal recommendation for DOT 3 fluid is to replace it every two years and have the system bled. If using DOT 4 fluid the replacement regime should be more often since that more readily absorbs moisture.
Having said that, if you leave the system for longer than two years it will probably be OK but there is a far greater chance of corrosion and related problems.
Apparently you aren't familiar with this either. Brake fluid changes are required with all cars.
Brake fluid is hygroscopic. It will absorb moisture and when it does the boiling point if the fluid is lowered which can result in loss of brakes at a time when theyare needed most. Water vapour can enter the system in a variety of ways. The reason it is designed to absorb moisture is so that water will not pool in areas of the system and cause corrosion. Nontheless, if not changed there will be corrosion since the fluid also contains anti-corrosion additives which become depleted with time.
The normal recommendation for DOT 3 fluid is to replace it every two years and have the system bled. If using DOT 4 fluid the replacement regime should be more often since that more readily absorbs moisture.
Having said that, if you leave the system for longer than two years it will probably be OK but there is a far greater chance of corrosion and related problems.
I'm glad your up on your bake fluid manufacturer propaganda. I am well aware of the fact that brake fluid is hygroscopic and the boiling point will lower as water is absorbed (hence my wondering if the smart's system allows more water in then normal lines and suggesting someone check the boiling point of 20k/2year old brake fluid from their car).
Very few car manufacturers recommend changing the brake fluid every 2 years, and most mention it around 100k miles if at all. This is because the brake system is built to be air tight and has a window on the side of the reservoir so you never have to open it. No manufacturer would expose themselves to the liability of brakes failing because of old fluid, when telling you to change the fluid costs them no money, unless you don't need to change it that often.
Have you ever checked the boiling point of your used fluid when you changed it, or had it analysed for metals? I doubt it. Did you know that the components in your brakes also contain materials designed to resist corroding (at least in most cars)? Should I also replace the the master, and wheel cylinders, and all the brake lines every 2 years?
I once had a used car, which had no records of the bake fluid being replaced when I got it, and when I finally replaced the brake fluid (due to a leaky master cylinder) at almost 200k miles and 8 years old we took a sample and attempted to measure the boiling point it was still above 350 degrees. Yes perhaps the master cylinder failed because of corrosion, but it was easily fixed by 1 $15 dollar kit. Which is a substantial cost savings to 19 fluid changes.
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