I'm selling a pair of front tires. they have 800 miles on them... "as new" still have the fuzzys on them. let me know if some one wants them... I'm in North FL.
Ideally, rotating used to be every other oil change...
Quote:
Originally Posted by a2jack
But I brought the car in to Discount Tire to have their techs confirm my worst fears.
The rears have an inside ridge just starting to wear in.
The fronts are badly cupped, also inside, this what we are hearing as road roar.
The partial fix? Rotate per handbook than inspect at another 6k. If no help--- tires must be turned over on their rims.
Discount tech says rears will be saved, fronts are doubtful, but worth a try.
Smart folks must rotate tires at 10k or less...
So now I learn. DUH!! A2Jack.
When we did oil changes every 3000 miles. So I change my oil about every 6K now on the smartie so every oil change...if you are hooked up with the same tires all around, that is....
Why wouldn't you???? I have 22,000 miles on my original set and the tread still looks new... my brake pads look new and I haven't had a single serious issue... I don't think it's out of line to expect 50 - 60K from the tires... 40 - 50k from the brake pads.
And no I haven't rotated my tires... though I did have them remounted on my rims when the were painted.
Years ago that IF YOU DON'T rotate your tires, EXPECT the REAL LIFE of the tire to be only 50% of what it could be if you had rotated them every 6000 miles. Realize that if you don't go with square 4 on the smartie that you are locked into UNeconomical tire utilization..... The usual failure mode, as A2 has found, was the tire cupping and the tire becoming noisy and not riding too nicely at highway speeds. Regular tire rotations have NEVER let me down yet insofar as keeping the tire wear even all the way around and I always simply went front-to-rear, rear-to-front on the same sides....never cris-crossing. (That's because I have used Nokians for decades....unidirectional tire).
I consistently got 60K+ miles out of the tires, too.
Why wouldn't you???? I have 22,000 miles on my original set and the tread still looks new... my brake pads look new and I haven't had a single serious issue... I don't think it's out of line to expect 50 - 60K from the tires... 40 - 50k from the brake pads.
And no I haven't rotated my tires... though I did have them remounted on my rims when the were painted.
This is my expectation as well. My Honda Insight had 75,000 miles on the original set of tires when I sold it, they all still had safe & usable tread depth, and I had never touched them except to have a flat fixed and inspect the brakes (also didn't need replacing).
When needed, replacing a pair of smart tires is only about $130 plus installation and balancing. Even if I need to do this every 30,000 miles or so (which I doubt), it's not a significant expense and seems much easier and more straightforward than swapping rims, rotating, and balancing every 10,000 miles. What's the cumulative cost, time and effort associated with that?
Forget it.
Last edited by PeteInLongBeach; 01-07-2009 at 10:22 PM.
Pete. QUOTE. "When needed, replacing a pair of smart tires is only about $130 plus installation and balancing. Even if I need to do this every 30,000 miles or so (which I doubt), it's not a significant expense and seems much easier and more straightforward than swapping rims, rotating, and balancing every 10,000 miles. What's the cumulative cost, time and effort associated with that?"
The point of my OP was that the tires were being damaged due to the design of the car and/or lack of warning as to real world rotation procedures and times .
Assuming, as you do, that you will get 30k on your Smart tires is fine. However, in our case, we will not be able to run much past 22k without replacement. Others with 20k on their cars have posted on the road roar issue as well.
The post was meant to be a heads up for those whose cars are nearing 10k miles to take action.
BTW the tread is like new where there is no damage, the tire tech commented on that fact.
20-30k mileage on tires on a car of this weight is also an indicator of very poor suspension design or set up. Perhaps dealer help is warranted? A2Jack
This is my expectation as well. My Honda Insight had 75,000 miles on the original set of tires when I sold it, they all still had safe & usable tread depth, and I had never touched them except to have a flat fixed and inspect the brakes (also didn't need replacing).
When needed, replacing a pair of smart tires is only about $130 plus installation and balancing. Even if I need to do this every 30,000 miles or so (which I doubt), it's not a significant expense and seems much easier and more straightforward than swapping rims, rotating, and balancing every 10,000 miles. What's the cumulative cost, time and effort associated with that?
Forget it.
A tire guy could verify this but looking back in time quite aways, the whole tire rotation thing came into sight after most cars out had front wheel drive. Putting the driven wheel onto the "roller wheel" (rear) would tend to even out the wear put onto the fronts. Perhaps it is the front wheel drive factor that made rotation necessary due to the wheel geometry constantly changing while providing traction and drive for the automobile....Interesting thought. Our smarties, being rear wheel drive may totally circumvent the whole rotation thing by virtue of the fact that they are rear wheel drive.
The only other instance would be full time 4 wheel drive which I would think keeps the tires scuffed off pretty clean by default.
Pete. QUOTE. "When needed, replacing a pair of smart tires is only about $130 plus installation and balancing. Even if I need to do this every 30,000 miles or so (which I doubt), it's not a significant expense and seems much easier and more straightforward than swapping rims, rotating, and balancing every 10,000 miles. What's the cumulative cost, time and effort associated with that?"
The point of my OP was that the tires were being damaged due to the design of the car and/or lack of warning as to real world rotation procedures and times .
Assuming, as you do, that you will get 30k on your Smart tires is fine. However, in our case, we will not be able to run much past 22k without replacement. Others with 20k on their cars have posted on the road roar issue as well.
The post was meant to be a heads up for those whose cars are nearing 10k miles to take action.
BTW the tread is like new where there is no damage, the tire tech commented on that fact.
20-30k mileage on tires on a car of this weight is also an indicator of very poor suspension design or set up. Perhaps dealer help is warranted? A2Jack
Cupping is also created by loose or not-too-stiff suspension. The struts allow the tire to bounce too much when it hits a small bump in theroad and that repeated bumping/bouncing makes the wheel/tire actually skid slighly,creating the flat spots called cupping. May very well be a suspension issue indeed.
I read this with great disappointment. I, like a2jack, have quite a few miles on mine 24k and have noticed the roar from the tires and then found that the fronts are worn on the insides of the tires (driver side more than passenger side). I really am thinking that it is out of alignment and will get the alignment checked when I replaced the tires. I've also notice the back tires wearing on the inside of them as well, I suspect due to the camber tilt that they (and other smarts I have seen) have. I have always been able to get at least 60k miles out of all of my vehicles tires. Even 86k out of a set of Uniroyals on an S10 pickup that I had. I would expect the smart to be able to, at least, get 40k out of a set of tires. Any less than that would, to me, tell me that the car is either out of alignment or is very poorly designed. If the smart, with perfect alignment, only gets about 20k-25k out of a set of tires, then I must re-consider keeping it, even though I really like it. That is just, to me, very poor design to get such low mileage out of a set of tires, granted if the alignment is correct.
I think the jury is still out, since Wdhitch reports no tire issues at all at over 22,000 miles. If odd tire wear was related to inherant design issues, most of the cars with such mileage would be exhibiting problems.
If my tires were exhibiting these issues, I would be checking for alignment, balancing, and strut/shock problems.
I think the worry is premature at this point. And again, tire replacement is not expensive, and less trouble than than rim swapping every 10,000 miles.
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DUH!! 
A2Jack.
The usual failure mode, as A2 has found, was the tire cupping and the tire becoming noisy and not riding too nicely at highway speeds. Regular tire rotations have NEVER let me down yet insofar as keeping the tire wear even all the way around and I always simply went front-to-rear, rear-to-front on the same sides....never cris-crossing. (That's because I have used Nokians for decades....unidirectional tire).
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