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I was wondering about that as well. I was also wondering why if the ForTwo has a Mitsubishi engine, why we have to go with Amsoil European 5W40 (as Amsoil recommends). Why does it not use a 30 weight oil? The Amsoil European is only made to go what the factory interval is. I'm okay with this and will use only Amsoil, but I would rather use the Amsoil 5W30 or 0W30 as long as it's compatible that way I could go the 1-year or 25,000 mile oil drain interval when using an Amsoil EAO12 oil filter.
I read a post some place where a person went to the dealer to get an oil change and the dealer ran a 30 weight oil. The dealer is not always right. Could that oil be incorrect? Does the owner's manual not tell you anything about the correct specs to use?
I also want to use Amsoil in the transmission fluid as well. Does the transmission take 75W90 gear oil?
There's a lot of other cars I could buy for what a new Smart sells for, but I was wanting something easy to park, easy to maintain and love to keep the gas bill under $30 bucks when gas hits $4.00/gallon again.
I rented a Smart ForTwo a week ago and now I want to buy one when I get the cash ready. It took me a while to get used to the way the transmission shifted. I actually got motion sickness on the way home. But then I started to use the paddle to shift and it was a lot better. I guess the car I drove didn't have the 2.0 update.
On a side note, a friend of mine used Amsoil 0W30 in his 2002 Hyundai Sonata. The Amsoil web site also recommended the same European 5W40. After about a month, his dipstick was almost dry. He drained all of the Amsoil 0W30 oil and switched to the European 5W40 and everything was fun. Apparently the engine or its seals were not compatible with the 30 weight oil and the European 5W40 has the correct additives for the engine. I am wondering if this is the same issue with the ForTwo.
The Amsoil 0W30 is the best 30 weight oil on the market of any synthetic you can buy. But it has to be compatible with the engine. If I have to stick with the European version of the oil when I get a Smart, then so be it. I'll probably use the EAO12 filter and change it every other oil change or try to keep it in for one year and just drain the oil every time the wrench comes on. It's only 3 quarts of oil, so it's not that big of a deal. I'd still be spending just over $20 per oil change being that I'd be keeping the EAO filter in.
I use AMSOil in both of my Smarts. and the Mobil-1 M108 oil filter. I think the extra weight is because of the high-compression engine. I have AMSOil in the tranny too.
To update some thread info, the 2007 iteration of M-B 229.51 (for diesel engines) does include “Amsoil European Car Formula 5W-40.” The 2006 M-B 229.5 (for gas engines) does not. Note that, and consistant with 229.51, Amsol markets their 5W-40 as an oil for diesels. I don’t think either M-B spec sheet need be considered critical for a Mitsubishi engine. As in the prior versions of 229.5, of the 2006’s 22 oils listed, 17 are 5Ws and 19 are 30-weights, (the few exceptions include 0Ws and/or 40-wts). My smart center uses bulk Castrol Syntec 5W-30 with Roger Penske’s permission. I take the notion that Amsoil is the best with a grain of salt, but they have flooded Google with their claims (money talks at Google). There are plenty of excellent synthetic oils readily available and appropriate to the Mitsubishi engine. Personally, I use Mobil 1 5W-30, which is not only API SM and ACEA A5 certified, but also ILSAC GF-4. For S.E. VA with a new engine, 30-wt is recommendable; if I lived in S. FL with an older engine I would lean toward a 40-wt. The owners manual offers a viscosity chart to choose synthetic oils from. Your driving use and environment should determine your oil change intervals, not what is claimed by the oil manufacturers. Study “severe service” definitions and requirements – many people are unknowingly in that category. I am, and do a 5,000mi/6-mo regimen, whichever comes first, and regardless of what oil is used.
When Amsoil Technical told me that their full synthetic-medium EaO filters had a different thread from the smart they were most likely referring to a 3/4”-16TPI thread, common in domestic U.S. vehicles. The Mitsubishi’s thread is M20 x 1.5mm, common to Euro and Japanese cars. In metric terms, a 3/4-16 would equate to 19.05mm x 1.59mm. Perhaps it could be forced onto the nipple, but in the end, the difference in thread pitch would have it held in place by only two pair threads, possibly not with a proper seal, and possibly distorting the nipple threads. Amsoil specifies a number of their products for the 1L I3 smart, but not oil filters.
If you want a good, M20x1.5, full synthetic-medium filter, I would use a Purolator PureONE PL14612, with a bypass valve spring nearly identical to the OEM (17psi vs. 18psi). It is the only other full-synthetic on the U.S. market. I have one in use and it has 1/16” more ground clearance than the bottom of the aluminum sump’s oil drain plug boss.
The transmission oil is 75W-90 synthetic gear oil.
Last edited by Old smart; 05-08-2009 at 09:27 AM..
Reason: add
I completely disagree. It's been proven time and time again that Amsoil is superior to other synthetics and I have my own personal experiences to prove it. I've noticed night and day differences after switching from Mobil 1 synthetic to Amsoil 5W30 in the past as well as getting many friends to switch.
The high compression engine has nothing to do with using a 40 weight oil. Corvettes and Z28's have the same 10:1 compression and they work perfectly fine with a 30 weight oil.
You don't save anything using Castrol or Mobil 1. I've been going 25,000 miles or more using Amsoil. You can't do that with other synthetics. There's simply no advantage using another synthetic over Amsoil being that you have to change those oils much more frequently, wasting money and time.
I've been using Amsoil in all of my cars for the past 7 years and now my family is also using it as well.
A friend of mine had a 2001 Camry that he was getting bad oil consumption where he did 100% of the oil changes at the dealer. I convinced him to switch to Amsoil and now all of that consumption has stopped completely.
Gas mileage has gone up considerbly in all of my cars after switching to Amsoil. I wanted to make sure the Smart ForTwo was also 100% compatible before I buy one of these. The Amsoil application guide only shows the European 5W40 to use.
They did the same thing when I used to own a Kia Sorento. I had to cross reference the filter with other vehicles using the same engine and had no problems.
I'm kinda lost on the comment a couple of posts earlier about oils being compatible with engines. If we're speaking of engines manufactured in the last 15 years or so, certainly any oil from a major manufacturer will be "compatible" [assuming the manufacturer's specs are met].
There are a lot of horror stories on the Internet (must be true if they're on the web!) about the "wrong" oil causing terrible damage to hoses, seals, o-rings, etc. but I'm not buying it with today's engines and oils.
If we're speaking of engines manufactured in the last 15 years or so, certainly any oil from a major manufacturer will be "compatible" [assuming the manufacturer's specs are met].
There are a lot of horror stories on the Internet (must be true if they're on the web!) about the "wrong" oil causing terrible damage to hoses, seals, o-rings, etc. but I'm not buying it with today's engines and oils.
That's true to a point. When I say "compatible", I mean that the oil has to meet the right code. For most American and Asian cars, they have to meet "SJ" specs. For new VW's, they have to meet 505.01 specs. I don't know what the code is for the Smart fortwo. If you use "any" oil that meets the spec, your warranty can never be voided.
For example, if you used some SJ oil in your new VW instead of using an oil that requires the 505.01 spec and then you blew an engine, VW would take an oil sample and see everything in the oil and know if you let the oil go way beyond the drain interval (neglect) or the wrong type of oil.
They can't void a warranty based on the viscosity alone (W30 vs W20 vs W40, etc...)
These are all of the specs that are met by the Amsoil 5W40 European oil. As long as the requirements for the Smart fortwo are in this list, you're totally covered under warranty (and that's under federal law with the Magnuson Moss Act):
As noted before, Amsoil 5W-40 is marketed by them (Amsoil) as a diesel engine oil only. It may be also OK for a gas engine, but they don't seem to think of it that way. The highlighted specs are for diesels.
Here's a subtile tidbit, getting further from the thread title: the Euro OpInst includes a viscosity illustration #P18.00-2056-31 wherein all viscosities are shown to exceed 86F environmental service. The U.S. (N.A.?) OpMan viscosity illustration #P18.00-2199-31 has the 30wts stopping at 86F.
True, Amsoil is a good brand of oil and meets MB 229.51 however, their multi-level marketing methodology reminds me of Amway...
I never care how a product is marketed. I only look for the best quality. If it has to come from an MLM instead of a store, then so be it. At least when I have questions, I have somebody involved in the MLM to go to. When it comes to asking technical questions to somebody selling stuff at Walmart or Auto Zone, GOOD LUCK getting any solid answers or literature on their products.
As noted before, Amsoil 5W-40 is marketed by them (Amsoil) as a diesel engine oil only. It may be also OK for a gas engine, but they don't seem to think of it that way. The highlighted specs are for diesels.
Here's a subtile tidbit, getting further from the thread title: the Euro OpInst includes a viscosity illustration #P18.00-2056-31 wherein all viscosities are shown to exceed 86F environmental service. The U.S. (N.A.?) OpMan viscosity illustration #P18.00-2199-31 has the 30wts stopping at 86F.
From what I read, the gasoline engine in the US Smart fortwo requires SM. That means you should be able to use most common 0W30, 5W30 or 10W30 oils, including any of the Amsoil ones that have the extended drains.
I just want to confirm that I can use the Amsoil EAO12 oil filter. I read a post some place where somebody said that they are using that filter. I don't want to have to keep changing the oil filter a whole bunch of times when using a 25,000 mile oil being that the Amsoil oil filter can last up to 25,000 miles, but that's only if it will fit on a Smart.
I tried contacting the corporate people at Smart and they refuse to give me any specifics on the oil. They tell me to go to the local dealer. That's just so you can go there and pay the high price for an easy oil change due to the lack of knowledge. I plan on paying cash for my fortwo and don't want anybody touching it unless it's a warranty repair.
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