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Cost for head replacement

4K views 28 replies 13 participants last post by  Snydermann 
#1 ·
The local Chevy dealership here in Parkersburg has my Smart. It has been throwing the P0303 code and I have been trying to get it repaired. The chevy dealership is where I purchased it as an orphan 3 months ago. I took it back to them to repair under the 30 day new used car warranty I got with the car. They've had the car all week and decided it was over their head to repair it at their service facility, so they want to take the car to the Smart center at Easton Ohio outside of Columbus (2 hours away) as it's the closest Smart repair center. I asked chevy if they were going to cover the full cost for this under the warranty. He said I won't know until we get an estimate from Easton on the repairs. So my question is how much does a head replacement at a dealer like Easton usually cost? Has anyone on the forum dealt with Easton before? Are they reasonable to deal with and do they do good work? I just don't have the money to spend out thousands of dollars for a head replacement so I'm a little concerned with so many unknowns to this situation.
 
#2 ·
I don't think anybody can give you a precise answer. Some dealers will want to replace the cylinder head and some will have it overhauled by a machine shop. Obviously, there is a difference in the cost. You need to get details when they get some kind of estimate together for you. I am surprised they want to ship it two hours away to the dealer. I would think there would be a European or Mercedes specialist shop in your area that has dealt with the smarts before. Well, maybe not. It is West Virginia.

:D
 
#3 ·
Why would they not cover the repair if you have a warranty? You either have a warranty or you don't or the fine print may limit it? I would think worst case is they refund you every penny you spent on the car if they won't cover the repairs.

Len
2014 EV
 
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#9 ·
He stated he got a 30 day warranty on the purchase and bought it 3 months ago. If it will cost the dealer less to refund the purchase price and write off the car than to repair it, guess what may happen? Nobody will know the answer until it gets diagnosed and estimated at the dealer. They will not make a decision until then.
 
#5 · (Edited)
Yes Rusted Wrench West Virginia is decades behind on alot of things and Smart dealers are non existent I guess. I don't know if there ever was a Smart dealer in W.Va, maybe Charleston or Morgantown at one point. They are trying to help me at McClinton Chevrolet here on Parkersburg. They know I can't sit long enough to drive that far so they are hiring a driver to take it up on monday for a tuesday morning appointment. As far as a Mercedes dealership, it's about 3 miles from my house, it's Astorg Mercedes and they won't touch a Smart car. Back in 2009 they had one rallye red fortwo with a silver tridion and it sat out front for $15,995 dollars for a long time. I don't know if they ever sold it, but it's the one I talk about in my profile that passed me on the interstate like I was sitting still back in 2009 and when I saw it I instantly fell in love with it and that's what made me decide that at some point I was gonna get one.Well years later I got one and now it's gettin' me (in the pocketbook). But the wife and I decided we're gonna get it fixed and just let them do it. Normally I could do it but I'm just not able to do it until after my hip replacement. So if it gets repaired and I take care of it properly it should last a long time. What is the best preventative maintenance against carbon build up on the valves? I keep oil changes current, run only high test gas and clean air fiilter? I guess short trips where the engine doesn't fully warm up is a factor. Maybe some harder running on the interstate instead of all around town to get the revs up past 3500 rpm? And lastly religous use of Marvel Mystery Oil or Seafoam? If they do replace the head will it last only 35,000 more miles like this time? And lastly, does the Smart have a fuel filter on it?
 
#7 ·
The issue with the smart car. They have a very poor resale value. Especially older models. Not worth sinking money into head replacement.

When ours finally dies. We'll donate it to a charity. Nice tax right off. Our Home Association, doesn't allow large paper weights, stored in the yards.

We had a couple Honda's last up to 200K miles, still running after we sold them. Had a Grand Cherokee with over 250K miles. Leaked a lot of oil. Jeeps, are known too, for being junk.
 
#8 ·
HI DreamCarOwner. I do religiously use Marvel Mystery Oil in both the gas and oil. My Brabus Chrome exhaust tips used to get blackened with carbon every two or three days. Not anymore since using MMO in both oil and gas. I started with the gas and now at oil changes use Royal Purple, three quarts, and top off with MMO to the full mark. Now I have just a faint shadow of carbon that wipes off easily every week or so. WhiteNBlack08 convinced me, until I cleared up a ticking lifter on my 1995 Nissan Truck with MMO added to the oil. I was impressed. I've also seen how clean an engine was upon tear down after using MMO. So I am an MMO convert. Fortunately or not, I commute 10 miles to work, mostly at 50 mph with stoplights along the way. Thus my engine is largely warmed up by the time I get there. I frequently drive it like I stole it to stay off the bumpers of the auto transmissioned Bimmer's and SUV's in this upscale burb I drive thru to work everyday. I suppose that helps keep the carbon blown out. I hope so, anyway. I do find that the engine idles better if I replace or maybe clean off the plugs yearly. I will try cleaning the plugs this time, rather than replacing them. It is not carbon I find on them, but a whitish string growth that shortens the gap. I will try to get a picture this next plug evaluation. I started with the iridium plug, and switched to the double platinum plug by NGK, which seemed to run better to me. Good luck DreamCarOwner. I still love my little Black Brabus Benz, hence the B B Benz handle. It would be nice if the Mitsubishi engine was as robust as the Geo Metro 3 cylinder engines were. I hope the MMO helps it achieve that.
 
#11 · (Edited)
Like I said earlier the local chevy dealer where I bought my orphan 3 months ago took it to check it out because of the P0303 misfire on cylinder 3 error.I had replaced the spark plugs,switched around the coil packs and ran fuel injector cleaner through it. Still got the same error within a day or two of driving.So I did the compression test and got 155-150-105. So knew cylinder 3 had problems.Chevy had it a week and decided it was over their head to repair so they wanted to send it to Easton which is over 2 hours away.Easton worked on it and said it had the wrong spark plugs in it and they were gapped wrong thus the CEL coming on. I put the autolite iridium plugs in it and I had them out 900 miles later for the compression test and double checked the gap with a feeler gauge and they were gapped to 35 thousandths.Well they called chevy and said with a couple of other things they had done the car was fixed and for chevy to come and get it and the bill would be around $350.Well chevy wanted me to pay the $350 and they would pay the bill to have it taken to Easton. I was gonna pick it up at chevy at 4:00 today and I was going to make them guarentee the work that it was fixed and no CEL. Well the driver went to Easton and picked it up and 2 miles from the Easton dealership the CEL came on, so he took it back to Easton. So I've been 2 weeks without a car and I'm no closer to having it fixed than I was at the beginning. I thought that maybe the 2 hour drive on interstate cleaned out some of the carbon, but apparently not. I thought a Smart dealership would know how to fix a Smart. And that's only the part of the story that I know. But it's frusterating because it should have been done 100% under the 30 day warranty, which I sent them an e-mail at 27 days into it that the CEL was the problem. So that's the kind of luck I have. If they would have already replaced the head or had it machined it would have been fixed by now, but the bill would have been alot more. Now the way it stands they'll charge this $350 on top of God knows what else and it's still gonna need a head replaced or repaired.
 
#12 ·
And that's only the part of the story that I know. But it's frusterating because it should have been done 100% under the 30 day warranty, which I sent them an e-mail at 27 days into it that the CEL was the problem.
I know this does not help you any but you should have taken the car back when the Check Engine light came on instead of futzing around with it. That way neither the selling dealer nor the (no so) smart dealer could claim any of the responsibility was yours.

Still, if you told them the compression was low on one cylinder it is baffling why they would not confirm that first, particularly if they pulled out the spark plugs. I suppose it is the usual "dealer knows best" syndrome.

This is not unique to smart dealers. As vehicles get more and more complex and the factories rely on more on-line self-learning for the techs, the level of expertise is inversely proportional to the complexity. Now combine that with the smart dealer's knowledge that they are working for another dealer, they know they are not going to get any up-sell work, so it is easy to see why they would want the car gone as quickly as possible. That is no excuse for incompetence, however.

I wish you the best but fear the worst.
 
#15 ·
Well the subject of head replacement is coming to a "head". As I had said earlier the Chevy dealer where I had bought the car took it to check it out because the check engine light was coming on. I had notified them 27 days into my 30 day used car limited warranty that I was having problems, so at this point it was almost 90 days since purchase by the time I was able to get past the communication problems and get the car scheduled for service(another story for another time). They decided it was over their head to fix it so they sent it to Easton Smart center 2 hours away. Easton checked it out and said I had put the wrong spark plugs in it. I had replaced the plugs from Auto Zone and they were the 7 dollar Autolites. I had only had the car 4 days and didn't have the cash for the $23 each Denso's. Anyway they scanned the car for codes, had the engine ECU unit out of it and God knows what else and the bill was $374. Well when the Chevy dealership driver went to pick up the car that was supposedly fixed, the CEL came back on only a couple of miles from the dealership, so the driver returned it to Easton. So now Easton says they want more money to compression test and smoke test the car. Well chevy said they won't pay Easton any more money to test the car. So they sent a driver to pick it up. By chance I had to go into town and I decided to drive by the dealership and check on the car and low and behold there it sat. I presumed at first that it was fixed. But the General Manager of chevy told me the story and he said they take full responsibility for the car. So he gave me 2 options.One, they will buy back the car from me for the full purchase price I paid for it and they will credit that full amount to any vehicle they have on the lot. Or two, they will give me $500 and I release them from liability for anymore problems with the car. I thought this was very fair of them. They cleaned the car and filled the gas tank and sent me home to think it over. I know it sounds silly, but I am really attached to this vehicle. I've spent over a thousand dollars in options to turn it into a Passion trim including changing the roof to a pano. $500 would more than buy a complete kit from ebay from United Kingdom to replace all the valve guides,valves and gaskets. I can do the work to remove the head so no cost there,so I would really only have to pay a machine shop to install the guides,cut the valve seats, lap the valves and set up the valve spring heights.So Chevy knows if Easton wants to replace the head it's gonna cost thousands and they know they're liable for it, so i guess they're trying to cut their losses because the value of the car doesn't necessitate that much equity. So when the wife gets home from work we'll talk about it and make a decision. I drove the car all evening and it ran great and didn't light the CEL.
 
#17 ·
Seriously? This is pathetic. I've spent my whole career (since 1984) as an auto mechanic and it pains me to read stories like this one.

The Chevy dealer doesn't want to fix it because it's not worth their time. None of their mechanics want to mess with it because they are all too focused on fixing Chevrolets, their mechanics are probably flat-rate and the book time to repair the cylinder head is too low.

Any real mechanic worth his weight in salt could fix your car. I'm sure any qualified motor machinist could repair the head. The difficult part would be finding the parts, but that is certainly do-able.

I've fixed hundreds of cylinder heads on dozens of different cars over the years. It's not a big deal.

$500.00 won't cover it though, maybe 3 or 4 times that amount would be about right.
 
#18 ·
Sadly i am in a similar situation, with 146K miles on my car, it is not worth repairing it, but I hate to scrap it as it still ran great until I lost a cylinder to low compression. Blue Book lists the value of my smart at around $1600, and it would cost much more than that to fix it. My concern is once I fix the head, what will go next??? trans? clutch? computer?? Just can't decide if I want to gamble on it or not.

For now, it sits in the back under a tarp...
 
#21 ·
Dreamcarowner - there may be more to the story, but based on what you have said, if it was me, I'd give the Chevy dealer a third option. Reimburse me for every penny I've spent on the car and I'll leave quietly. There are so many nice, ready to go Smarts out there with service records that even if you have to have it shipped to you, you will likely be better off in the long run.

Len
2014 EV
 
#22 ·
Well I just left the chevy dealer with a check that covered all my parts and consumables. I bought a head repair kit from a vendor on Ebay that lives in Devon, United Kingdom. It includes all new intake valves(6), all new exhaust valves(6),all new valve guides(12),new head bolts and a gasket set. The kit shipped to my door was $497.90. I also bought Mobil 1 synthetic oil, Bosch oil filter, Peak antifreeze, and my first quart of Marvel mystery oil to go in the gas and the oil too. Chevy paid for all of it which I'm sure wasn't even a drop in the bucket for them, but it was a big deal to me. I was given free reign to buy the parts I needed and I bought the stuff that was recomended for the car. If anyone needs the name of the ebay vendor for your own head project just PM me and I'll be happy to forward the information to you. This vendor is planning to expand their offerings of Smart parts, particullarly engine stuff that is hard to get here in the states unless you pay full retail at a dealer. So I'll keep everyone posted. Chevy agreed to pay for all the parts and I provide the labor and will pay for the machine work myself. They also paid the $374 bill from Smart car of Easton, so at least I got a $374 set of Denso spark plugs. I wonder if they will last longer than the $26 each ones we can buy around here? If I do the engine work then I'm sure that it is done right. Chevy offered me the full price for the Smart car back, and I know it's crazy to everyone probably, but I really like that little car. I've worked on it for 3 months already and spent over a thousand dollars to customize it just the way I want it. I intend to keep it for a long time. There are car people that take a rusted up 57 chevy and put $100,000 in it to restore it even though it may not be worth that much when they are done. Maybe value wise it may only be worth $60,000, but having somethng you enjoy and really want outweighs dollars and cents sometimes. I could have taken the money and ran with it and bought me another Smart, but who's to say it wouldn't have exhaust valve problems too at some point? At least I know what I have now and can properly keep it serviced and it should last a long time. Why die rich by being overly frugal and sacrificing and when you're gone someone else enjoys your money and possessions? I'll get off my soapbox now..... There just isn't alot of stuff online about dropping the engine and servicing the head, so with ALLDATA and my digital camera I will endeavor to provide that info here.I'm gonna start on it right after thanksgiving, so I'm bound to have a question or two along the way. I've been combing the posts here hours at a time for info from people that have done it. "Offsprings" pics from his motor pull were priceless and very helpful. I have done alot of cylinder head work, just not on a smart. there's a first time for everything and it's time to learn. From what I've read so far the only thing that scares me about the project is getting the timing chain in correctly, as that seems to be a problem and conflicting instructions from sources (alldata,service manuals). I will document the chain and cam assembly to death before I remove them. I have 3 questions before I start out:

1.Does the head gasket require any type of sealer? I'm old school and used to use the Fel Pro gaskets that were blue coated and required no sealer. And I did head work on an old plymouth GTX I used to have and I had to buy a spray copper gasket sealer to use on those steel shim type (thin) head gaskets(victor gaskets from Napa).

2.The other thing that worries me is getting all the air out of the cooling system. I know that I'm supposed to take a hose loose at the driver side of the head and fill the system with coolant until the air is all out.Maybe even drive it up a steep bank and run it a few minutes just ot be on the safe side as was suggested on other posts?

3.And lastly I read on here that all the hose clamps are "crimp type" and need to be replaced by screw type clamps when they are removed.So I figure this is a good time to replace them. Does anyone know how many there are total between the radiator and heater core hoses, and also what size are the hoses? From pictures they look to be small like 1/2" hose or maybe 5/8"?

If it goes well I may get it done before my hip surgery, but if the car fights me back I may not get it all done before surgery, but at any rate I will get it done and at some point get the info on here. I've done several Smart projects and made videos of them, but windows movie maker and my older laptop won't allowme to edit it into full videos. I had planned to post several Smart car things on you tube and post the links here, but the computer wn't let me get it done. A little bird told me that Santa may be bringing me a new powerful laptop for christmas, and if he does I'll get all that edited and posted. So I may just stick with pictures on this project and that way I'll be sure to get them posted.... Sorry didn't meanto write a book !
 
#25 ·
If it goes well I may get it done before my hip surgery, but if the car fights me back I may not get it all done before surgery, but at any rate I will get it done and at some point get the info on here. I've done several Smart projects and made videos of them, but windows movie maker and my older laptop won't allowme to edit it into full videos. I had planned to post several Smart car things on you tube and post the links here, but the computer wn't let me get it done. A little bird told me that Santa may be bringing me a new powerful laptop for christmas, and if he does I'll get all that edited and posted. So I may just stick with pictures on this project and that way I'll be sure to get them posted.... Sorry didn't meanto write a book !

Either you are stubborn - or have enough interest in the car to tackle this project -
 
#24 ·
First, it sounds like you are mechanically inclined, so please DO take pictures of the process that you go through! You can have the pictures hosted on Photobucket and link to them here; I've found that method to be the easiest.

I'm an engine guy as well, but I do motorcycle engines, not cars - although in many ways it's same thing, different size. So I'll try to answer your questions, numbers correspond to yours.

1. If you buy a new head gasket, and you thoroughly clean the mating surfaces, the head gasket should not have any sealant applied to it. Clean the mating surfaces - but don't damage them. Don't use metal scrapers, abrasives, etc. You may use gasket remover (available in an aerosol can from auto parts stores). You want to remove carbon and gasket residue, you do not want to remove metal. Carbon and oil stains left imprinted in the metal, that won't readily come off is OK - if you can see the machining marks, the "stains" are below the top of the machining marks and won't impede how well the gasket seals. It's better to leave those seemingly unremovable stains in place than it is to damage the metal surface by trying to remove them.

2. The correct way to do this is to fill it at the front pressure bottle and relieve the air pocket at the back using the bleed fitting at the engine. It's near the top left of the engine. Given that you're going to be working in this area to remove the cylinder head from the car ... you will see it! DO NOT start the engine until the air is out of the system. Jacking up the front of the car (in the shop - don't drive it to a hill!) may help. Disclaimer: I've not tried it myself. Don't forget to crank the heater up to max and keep an eye on the coolant level when you first start the engine. If the heater is producing heat once the engine starts warming up, you are getting circulation through the system.

3. I have no idea how many clamps there are and how big. Again, this is something to keep track of as you take it apart. Do an inventory of things you will want to replace as you go. There will be more.

Another thing ... Cam timing. This is something that has an odd procedure that some people have reported having trouble with. Personally, I'd find cylinder #1 TDC using the bulletproof long-screwdriver-down-the-sparkplug-hole method and see what marks line up where, and make my own marks for where everything is if the existing markings don't make any sense.

Don't forget that you will have to check and set the valve clearances, which is done using select-fit shim-buckets. Since you are replacing the valves and will probably be refacing some of the valve seats, you will have to do this. There is no way to know what shim-buckets you need until you test-fit with all of the new valves.
 
#26 ·
I wish you good luck on both the car project and the pending hip replacement. I have heard the hip replacement is not as bad as knee replacement (which I had done and am still dealing with 8 months later) If you have decided to take the plunge and rebuild your car, then go for it!! If I had the energy, time and a decent place to work on mine, I would. More power to you!!
 
#27 ·
Thanks everybody for the kind words of encouragement. Yes, the day after thanksgiving I am gonna start on it and try to document it all with pics. I got me a photobucket account last night (thanks Gofaster). And Jim it takes a long time to get used to any replacements be it knee or hip. Mine has been a long long road. When I was 27 we were going camping and a drunk driver hit my chevy pickup head on and crushed the truck against me. It crushed my pelvis but didn't break my leg, basically it shoved my leg out my backside.So they pinned it and after a year I couldn't even bend it enough to sit, so they did a total hip replacement. That was 26 years ago and that replacement has to be done again with bone grafts. It doesn't bend anymore either and I'm concerned about getting down to drop the motor because I can't sit, but I love my little Smart and I'm not giving up on him. Where there's a will, there's a way. I've got a heated garage in my basement, so if I can get down the steps I can work on it. I just hate starting on it and possibly not getting it all back together for a while. The confusing part it runs so well but loves to light the CEL. I have to admit that it does run better with the factory Denso spark plugs, as opposed to the autolite iridiums from Auto Zone that I put in it. On another note, I got to talk to a fellow Smart car owner that lives just out the road from me. We met at Little Caesars pizza. He is on his 3rd Fortwo. The first one got totaled being hit by a large truck and he walked away. The second one rolled over a hill by his daughter who was texting and she walked away. He swears these are the safest cars on the road and he wouldn't drive anything else. I hope I never have to test the safety features, but I'm sure glad they are there.
 
#28 ·
On wednesday afternoon 11-25-2015 I ordered my cylinder head repair kit from "Molliesclassics" on ebay. (mollie2591)
Head Repair Valve Guide Kit Smart Car 451 Fortwo 999cc 2007 Onwards | eBay
It's now just after 4:00pm on 11-27-2015 and I'm holding the box here in my hand.It's unbelievable that a vendor can ship from U.K to W.Va in under 3 days. They have earned my respect. I'm not affiliated with Mollies Classic in any way, I'm just a happy customer. The parts are German made from a company called "Elring". You can paste the above link in your address bar if you want to see the kit, but with Mitsubishi 1 litre parts so hard to find, it's nice to know you can order this kit somewhere and get everything you need to refurbish your cylinder head minus the machine shop work. Heck I haven't even had time to tear down the car yet. it wasn't due to arrive until Dec 2nd to the 8th. But I know we all like to share info amongst ourselves, so if you want to do the head removal and installation yourself this might be the answer to your problem. I have just under $500 in the kit and still have to pay the machne shop, but at any rate it's still alot cheaper than letting the dealer do it if your are mechanically inclined and have proper tools. Lonnie.
 
#29 ·
Dreamcarowner, Elring is a quality supplier of parts, I've used tons of their parts at my VW/German repair shop (mostly engine parts and head gaskets) and I don't remember ever having a problem with any of their stuff. I think the price you paid for that kit (if the all parts are quality) is a very good price and having it shipped and in your hands so quickly is amazing. That vendor deserves the support of the smart community if everything is indeed the quality it appears to be, in my opinion.

Good luck with your project, I'll be following your progress and I'm hoping for the best.
 
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