need help with ac charging

[jwight]

Originally Posted by a2jack

Jwight Are you are assuming the problem is just with the 450s? Are you are also assuming the dealer can fix it. Further are you thinking our members are willing to do this back and forth repair game. (the dealer can only use R-134 which will leak right out again).

Have an "Open Mind". that's the Smart way. At least have a look here for future reference. http://www.duracool.com/

BTW. Iv'e used this stuff on another car and it works great.

Nope, that's why I specifically mentioned the 2 year/24K warranty - would have to be a 451. I'm not up for doing a workaround on what's purported to be a manufacturing or design defect, assuming I ever encounter the problem. Either smart will fix it within three visits or the car will get "lemon lawed."

[Big Panda]

Originally Posted by jwight

......I'm not up for doing a workaround on what's purported to be a manufacturing or design defect, assuming I ever encounter the problem. Either smart will fix it within three visits or the car will get "lemon lawed."

THANK YOU!!!!

my feeling is they'll either FIX IT or they'll be buying it back! hey, after the 2/24, it's on ME, but up until then......

[Old smart]

So where have all the leaks been found (and surely they can be found with a sniffer)?

[Big Panda]

Originally Posted by Allanb

Thank you both. I have owned 5 Smart cars over the last 4 years. THEY ALL LEAK REFRIGERANT over time. This is possibly a design flaw that duracool can correct. I know I can take it to the dealer, but adding refrigerant is easy and safe if you have the right tools. You have only owned your Smarts for a short time...after a few years you will be looking at this post and wonder about the answer as well...

again, Mr Obvious here thinking that "IF' this duracool is something that would correct this issue, wouldn't you think the MANUFACTURER would step in and start using it rather than the R134? sure would save them $$ as well as possibly losing customers.

HELLO, McFly????

[Dunerunner]

a2jack -I'm not trying to say the smart A/C is the best system out there, I'm saying that as a community that takes the environment into account when buying a car that is economical and nearly 100% recyclable, we should evdeavor to fix the problem rather than just pour more refrigerant into it. If your fuel tank leaked, would you just go get more gas and ignore the problem? If the crankcase of your smart leaked a quart every month, would you shrug your shoulders and dump a quart of synth. in? I don't believe 134A is as damaging to the ozone layer as R-12 or R-22 but I stand by my statement that it is ecologically unsound to continuously dump refrigerant into a machine that leaks. No reputable repair facility would do this without repairing the system and run the risk of being caught, right; so is that why you guys want to DIY the recharge? Duracool would be a more ethical option for you if you have no intention of repairing the system. I would use SystemSeal or SealQuick in an attempt to "fix" the leaks prior to recharge and if the system was flat, pruge with a system dryer after evacuation to at least 30" of vacuum. Then draw a vacuum again, before charging. Good Luck!

[a2jack]

Originally Posted by Dunerunner

a2jack -I'm not trying to say the smart A/C is the best system out there, I'm saying that as a community that takes the environment into account when buying a car that is economical and nearly 100% recyclable, we should evdeavor to fix the problem rather than just pour more refrigerant into it. If your fuel tank leaked, would you just go get more gas and ignore the problem? If the crankcase of your smart leaked a quart every month, would you shrug your shoulders and dump a quart of synth. in? I don't believe 134A is as damaging to the ozone layer as R-12 or R-22 but I stand by my statement that it is ecologically unsound to continuously dump refrigerant into a machine that leaks. No reputable repair facility would do this without repairing the system and run the risk of being caught, right; so is that why you guys want to DIY the recharge? Duracool would be a more ethical option for you if you have no intention of repairing the system. I would use SystemSeal or SealQuick in an attempt to "fix" the leaks prior to recharge and if the system was flat, pruge with a system dryer after evacuation to at least 30" of vacuum. Then draw a vacuum again, before charging. Good Luck!

I see you didn't read the link. The procedure is the same, Vac out and store what remains of the old R-134, replace with Duracool sealer and stop leak. than re-charge the system with Duracool.

Why go off on a trip about dumping it in the environment? I would never do that. I took my car to a state approved Air-con station and it was taken care of while I waited.

I posted this as a heads up to all, in answer to another members post. Why come back so heavy? A2Jack

[a2jack]

Jeepster. I take your reply as a rather rude insult and your reaction to my post is puzzling.

I am not McFly, dumb or rude. And I post a lot here, as I'm deeply interested in the nuts and bolts issues of our cars.

I won't go way into the differences between R-134 and Duracool as the link has the whole story. In a nutshell Duracool has a more dense molecular structure and does not tend to leak out as easly as R-134. Some on CsC say it runs colder.

A2Jack.

[Big Panda]

Originally Posted by a2jack

Jeepster. I take your reply as a rather rude insult and your reaction to my post is puzzling.

I am not McFly, dumb or rude. And I post a lot here, as I'm deeply interested in the nuts and bolts issues of our cars.

I won't go way into the differences between R-134 and Duracool as the link has the whole story. In a nutshell Duracool has a more dense molecular structure and does not tend to leak out as easly as R-134. Some on CsC say it runs colder.

A2Jack.

sorry "A2Jack".....certainly didn't mean to offend you or anyone. just trying to inject some humor.....that's all.

as for the issue at hand, it's just that as long as i've been in the car business (Parts and Service for well over 20 years) i've seen manufacturers make some odd 'quick fixes' and if this Duracool is a legit product and would solve smarts A/C issue, why wouldn't they use it? why tick off thousands (or HUNDREDS of thousands if you include the 450's) if all they had to do was use Duracool in the system on the assembly line?

as someone else asked: WHERE is it leaking? excellent question. would it be at the connections or the o-rings? through the rubber parts of the A/C lines and hoses? compressor? evaporator? WHERE?

if it IS "leaking", then smart needs to address the part or parts that are "leaking". i would think that using a more dense refridgerant would only cause added stress and strain on the compressor which, in turn, may cause an early failure of a very expensive part, not to mention the labor to replace it.

just answer 1) Has anyone confirmed the leaks and know where they are and 2) Why doesn't smart simply use Duracool at smartville to begin with?
is it not 'green' enough?

again, sorry that i offended someone. guess i need to be 'smarter' with my humor, huh?.....

[a2jack]

Jeepster accepted and done.

The leaks, As posted on CsC, were micro seal and line failures attributed to long line runs to the rear engine. But even after seal and line replacements they would pup up again and again. It was obviously a design failure but MB was unable to cure it. Next they reprogrammed ECU to have the air con come on at lower temps with the defrosters in the winter, the theory being lack of lube.
That didn't work either.

It seems to occur each spring with warm air coming out of the AC, from loss of R-134 over the winter.

Go to CsC and read all the threads it's really interesting.

Regards A2Jack.

[Dunerunner]

a2jack - did read the link. Good information there! Small 'micro' seal leaks can be sealed using Duracool if they occur on the low pressure side of the system and some on the High Pressure side will seal depending on size of the breach. I have never used this product, I have always found the leak and repaired or replaced to restore system integrity. Sorry about the Environmental rant, the original post by AllanB refered to a DIY recharge and asked "How do I get to the recharge port", poor aiming on my part. Going for another pint of aiming fluid!!!