Ever been to southeastern Arizona right after monsoon season? - sheureka
Yes, I went to Cochise College for my Aircraft Mechanic License. Could have been a problem in the desert trails going to College desert drinking parties
I would not worry about clearance unless I the car is driven trough deep rutted country roads or trails.
it's not only clearance. It's also protection. Some cars have a plate to protect them when the filters are "exposed" to flying objects, and weather from underneath the car. Of course that means some vendor may come up with one and charge $50 for a $4 plate. If it had protection or was not low hanging, I would be using the largest filter I could buy (maybe using an adapter). BUT once you go beyond stock size the filter becomes the lowest engine point and it would be easy to knock it open or off. I believe you should stay with stock size.
From my picture, the lowest point of the filter is near the same level as the drain plug. I did not have the chance to measure the difference between the stock filter and the Bosch filter but I believe it is around an inch or less. With the filter being at an angle, it is even less than that. (for those who are picky).
Nevertheless, the difference is not significant enough to just stay with stock. The price is less and the manufacture specifically designs these for the Smart.
Some time ago, a member of this forum, using a Purolator PL14612, collected a significant dent in the side of the cansiter. It looked like it was from a stone thrown sideways by the right rear wheel. Any filter of any length would be exposed to that. But the result was, with as much of a dent as was involved, the mounting nipple was not damaged; canister was not breached; nor was the filter seal broken.
Yes, I have measured the OEM filter (1-15/16") and the PL14612 and Bosch 3300 (both of those 2-15/16"). Again, with a 2-15/16" filter, the filter has 1/16" more ground clearance than the sump - I measured that more than once now. And it is shielded from debris ahead by the sump (not the sides though).
N.B. The 1" additional length of the filter canister at 45ş equates to 0.707" vertical distance (sine of 45ş).
Last edited by Old smart; 11-11-2009 at 01:55 PM.
Reason: N.B.
N.B. The 1" additional length of the filter canister at 45ş equates to 0.707" vertical distance (sine of 45ş).
I'm not a math major but I'm more concerned with the larger exposed surface. maybe you can take the added length X width or whatever and provide the surface exposure difference. all I know is I've sat all 6 filters on the counter in an Autozone and I've seen the height difference. Maybe my smart filter looks more vertical since I change my oil on ramps (I don't know the cosine of that ). But whatever, the non-stock generics are longer and hang down below the pan and anything else in that general area. For the extra $2-4 for the mitsu (I buy 10 from mitsu dealer@ $9), I'll stay with the factory.
But I have given thought to other responses so thanks for that.
... But whatever, the non-stock generics are longer and hang down below the pan and anything else in that general area. ...
They (and they are not "generic!") DO NOT hang down below the lowest part of the "pan." Yes, the Bosch and Purolator are close (- 1/16"), but they don't.
N.B. Both the sine and cosine of 45ş = 0.707.
Last edited by Old smart; 11-11-2009 at 03:28 PM.
Reason: N.B.
They (and they are not "generic!") DO NOT hang down below the lowest part of the "pan." Yes, the Bosch and Purolator are close (- 1/16"), but they don't.
umm I called them generic because none of the store brands have been developed and sold JUST for smart. They FIT and for some people they don't mind that their dimensions don't equal oem dimensions but some people do care. But maybe you are right - generic would mean they are exactly the same but just less expensive because the manufacturer doesn't have to re-coup R&D costs. so they are not generic - they are " a way to sell more filters"
now Old Smart back in 2008 you were saying this: Yup, but to clarify, if I am to deviate from the OEM specification, I choose to do so after personal interface with the filter manufacturer.
In the case of PurolatorUSA, I actually percipitated their decision to "benchmark" the OEM Tokyo Roki/Mitsu 1230A040 filter. There were both phone and email interface with their product engineering people. In time they reported back to me that they would recommend the existing L14612 and PL14612 to the marketing people. But before they actually fitted a 14612 to a smart, marketing included the two filters on their application list. I am disappointed that the 14612s are enough longer than the OEM to be slightly exposed under the car. I alerted them to that fact based upon Kane's findings from the 14612s that I sent to him. They continue to be listed on the application list. Yes, Bosch lists the 3300 for the I3 1l smart. There is a presumption of testing, but it doesn't always hold true that everything is the same.
Purolator is owned by Bosch and Mann+Hummel. So, did Bosch do original analysis, or did they adopt PurolatorUSA's information? Or did they just continue with an existing cross-reference? Dunno. PurolatorUSA crosses the 3300 with the 14612, and that didn't work out.
Similarly, Hastings lists their LF113 as a replacement for an absolute clone of the OEM Mitsu (a Yamaha 5DM-13440-00), but digging further, the LF113 is considerably longer, and would be exposed like the 14612s.
In the case of Mobil, when I first talked to their technical staffer on the phone he said that they had already completed the lab analysis of the characteristics of the OEM , and had determined that the parameters of the M1-108 were appropriate. They were then waiting to get access to a smart to observe the filter's mounting and surroundings.
In the case of AMSoil, they initially told me on the phone that the full-synthetic EAO-12 "looked like it would work." They had done no analysis, nor did it seem like they were inclined to. A showstopper! Recently, I re-approached them, and had the email posted in "AMSoil Filter" returned. AMSoil is affiliated with Dana/Wix, and indicated that Wix is working on something.
For my own research, I have cut two OEM Tokyo Roki/Mitsu 1230A040s and two Tokyo Roki/Yamaha 5DM-13440-00s. They are absolutely identical, inside and out, even the manufacturing tool marks. The only difference is the name on the can. Even the shade of ink color on the respective boxes is the same.
So where am I at? I am using a M1-108 because I have talked with Mobil about their testing and, it is readily available locally. I obviously would use an OEM again, as well as a somewhat more available T.R./Yamaha (25 miles away vs. 50 to the dealer). I remain disappointed with the PL14612 outcome. I would like to have more info directly from Bosch engineering about the 3300 before having 100% confidence, though I may prove to be niggling.
BTW, I have only been looking into full-synthetic and semi-synthetic filters. I am hoping that Mann+Hummel will produce a spin-on filter for the W451 as they do for the W450. Mann+Hummel developed the original full-synthetic fleece technology for M-B Sheet 229.5. Last edited by Old smart; 08-27-2008 at 07:50 PM..
then last month you were saying this: Bypass spring rates:
OEM A1321800010 -- 11-17psi (Tokyo Roki/Mitsu 1230A040)
Yamaha 5DM-13440-00 -- 11-17psi (T.R. clone of OEM)
Purolator PureONE PL14612 -- 14-18psi (Bypass in high end of range)
Purolator PremiumPLUS L14612 -- 14-18psi (Bypass in high end of range)
Mobil 1 M1-108 -- 25psi (Bypass high beyond range)
Bosch FILTEC 3300 -- 25psi (Bypass high beyond range)
Champ PH2876 -- 11-17psi (Bypass correct)
K&N Performance Gold HP-1008 -- 11-17psi (Bypass correct)
Hastings LF113 -- 14psi (Bypass correct)
Wix 57040 -- 8psi (Bypass low below range)
NAPA 7040 -- 8psi (Re-branded Wix)
CarQuest 84040 -- 8psi (Re-branded Wix)
Beck/Arnley 041-0823 -- Unknown Last edited by Old smart; 10-16-2009 at 07:46 AM.. Reason: add Hastings
This information seemed to indicate that there was more differences than the dimensions but I also know you don't "advocate" for any particular filter from another post.
I'll take your word that the Bosch is 1/16 higher than the pan at it's lowest point from an even and straight measurement. I'll still use the Mitsu filters.
I would not worry about clearance unless I the car is driven trough deep rutted country roads or trails. Doubt any one here drives in that environment.
Road kill that is smack in the middle of your lane, it's nightime, raining, somebody is right on your tail, and there is oncoming traffic.
Chances are you are probably going to run over it.( Let's assume I did)
It's a strong possibility that your oil filter could be the target of fragments of this roadkill or any other debris that always seems to find it's way onto our highways.Now, it may only dent your filter or it might bend it over to the point where it might leak around the gasket.(Remember its nightime)
You have many more miles to cover, your engine is losing oil but you don't know it! This is a true story.Think twice about strapping on a filter that hangs down enough to become even a larger target.
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- sheureka
). But whatever, the non-stock generics are longer and hang down below the pan and anything else in that general area. For the extra $2-4 for the mitsu (I buy 10 from mitsu dealer@ $9), I'll stay with the factory.
2009 Smart 451
humble apologies.....
This is a true story.Think twice about strapping on a filter that hangs down enough to become even a larger target.
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