Smart + Ferrari Trans = F451

[La Petit]

does anyone out there drive a F430 ferrari, the one with the optional F1 transmission?

can some of you webby gearheads glean some info on the 430 ferrari f1 transmission, and see how its functionality compares with that of our 451 smarties?

i have an f430 and a 451, and with respect to their transmissions and shifting, it seems like the two vehicles are quite similar in concept and practise.

neither is a true automatic or conventional manual. i'm quite certain the ferrari is a hydraulically assisted electro-mechanically shifted transmission. i suspect the 451 uses an electro-mechanically assisted trans as well. (excuse me if my terminology is off a wee bit)



i'd swear the two cars are related.
when i put my smartie into paddle-mode, i can get a bit more 'performance' out of it in that i can wind it up to slip onto the highway, but when i put it in auto-mode i get an enjoyably leisurely ride about town.

i can say the exact same thing about my 430. when i put the ferrari in auto-mode its a total slug, with the exact same kinda of bobbing lag between shifts as the smartie. obviously in paddle-shifting mode the 430 can be quite peppy, quite like my smartie!



in paddle-mode the 430 will lag the least bit between gearshifts if you just brainlessly lay your foot on the gas (like the manual says to...), but if you time the slightest drop in revs just at the time you shift... it seems to smooth it out into a delighfully graceful transition of power.

i have noticed the same effect in my smartie, to a lesser extent. (mainly the missing onslaught of the unending revs.) if you just power on through your smartie gear changes with your foot mashing the pedal, you'll get a bob-lag, just like in a ferrari. feather the gas with finesse, and your smartie will sing.



also the 430 has an adjustable shift-time that can be changed with a dial on the steering wheel. the range is something like 150 milliseconds down to about 60 milliseconds, and believe it or not this minor difference is quite noticable.
it seems that folks who keep their shiftimes down to 60ms also have a clutch change at 10k miles. (but they tend to hammer the car alot too.) perhaps the longer shift time of the smart is intended to help increase longevity of the system...? perhaps to keep costs down too..?
smart designers probably thought that formula1-racing-style shift times found on the ferrari were not needed on the smart... i agree. i'm not sure theyre even needed on a ferrari.


whether paddleshifting or in 'D', i find feathering the gas at shift time greatly reduces the bobbing-effect, but in both cars it took a while to learn how to do this with finesse.


i think that people just assume this 'learning curve' is just part of driving a high hp exotic,
so in the case of the ferrari, this 'exotic transmission and shifting technique' is viewed as 'cool and desirable'...
but in the case of the smartie, the exact same characteristics are being viewed by some as detractor...?

[SmartPassion]

Originally Posted by La Petit

i think that people just assume this 'learning curve' is just part of driving a high hp exotic,
so in the case of the ferrari, this 'exotic transmission and shifting technique' is viewed as 'cool and desirable'...
but in the case of the smartie, the exact same characteristics are being viewed by some as detractor...?

Like a lot of things in this world, the price of entry probably dictate ones perception of the subject.

Thanks for the comparison. How about posting a picture of the two together?

[partsrme928]

How do the two compair on down shifts? I have heard that the Ferrari blips the throttle on down shifts

[La Petit]

i did right after i got it home. i put in the 'Got My Smart' foto gallery...

'Smart, and not as smart'

[La Petit]

"How do the two compair on down shifts? I have heard that the Ferrari blips the throttle on down shifts"

the 430 will set the revs where they should be based on things like the current wheel speed and how much torque youre currently requesting via the gas pedal. below 5k-ish the downshifts are smooth as silk with no adjustment of the pedal, above that and it tugs slightly, but ive usually upped the torque request at downshifts in the 6-7k range, so the back-tug is replaced with a huge forward-tug.

ive not had my smartie long enough to empirically evaluate the entirety of its shift characteristics, im just turning 800 miles and ill tend to baby it until its well broken in. the majority of my paddle shifting has been when needing a bit more oomph to slip onto the highway. i think i down-shifted once with the paddles and got a tug that didnt feel good with just 400 miles on the speedo, and i decided to let it self-downshift until its well broken in and i can play with it a bit more.

i dont know if its been mentioned yet, but when in paddle-shift mode you can upshift and down shift as you need, and as you near a stop, the trans will automatically downshift for you and set you in the appropriate gear for when you accelerate again.

the ferrari does the exact same thing.

[La Petit]

also i remember having a tiptronic 993 or 996 porsche when i was younger, and i vaguely remember it also being somewhat similar in its shifting to 451 shifting, but i had no idea what was going on mechanically back then.

anyone have experience with porsche tiptronics?

i also have a vw nb convertible with a 6-speed 'tiptronic' (so its called) but in this instance it simply feels like a 6 speed automatic transmission that lets you over-ride the shift-logic.
it shifts nothing at all like the smartie trans.

[SmartAzz]

Originally Posted by La Petit

also i remember having a tiptronic 993 or 996 porsche when i was younger, and i vaguely remember it also being somewhat similar in its shifting to 451 shifting, but i had no idea what was going on mechanically back then.

anyone have experience with porsche tiptronics?

i also have a vw nb convertible with a 6-speed 'tiptronic' (so its called) but in this instance it simply feels like a 6 speed automatic transmission that lets you over-ride the shift-logic.
it shifts nothing at all like the smartie trans.

The Porsche, Audi, BMW, Mercedes, etc tiptronics/steptronics (manumatics) have a torque converter like other automatics, they often do let you change and hold gears however (and they are not all equal, as you have experienced the Porsche tranny, which in of itself has improved over time, is better and more responsive then the VW).

The hydraulic clutchless transmissions like the Ferrari F1, Lambo -egear, Audi/VW DSG, BMW SMG are a different animal, a manual transmission that operates the clutch for you. Some incorporate duel clutches and they can operate the gear change much faster then a human can.

IMHO they all can be very fun once you learn how to optimize each of them (a learning curve that some do not bother with, as we have seen in the Smart reviews :roll) and allow yourself to put more focus on the what is happening on the road and the the steering/grip feedback/physics vs clutching And being able to keep both hands on the wheel doing all that is a nice benefit too ;)

The Smart transmission while similar in ways to the above hi tech transmissions is missing the speed and lovely rev matching, but I think it can still be enjoyable considering the whole fun to use package

[oilman930]

The gearbox in the smart is a conventional manual. According to the Getrag website, the gearbox itself can be set up to use the 3 pedal shifting system or an automated shifting system. The actual transmission is the same.

The same goes for the F430. It's still possible to get a F430 in a conventional stick and clutch arrangement. Same gearbox, different shifting arrangement.

[vanslam]

This should help with your answer. The Ferrari 430 is epic and the Smart Car is....well Smart.

YouTube - Ferrari F430 Top Limit - Top Gear...

[La Petit]

at about 3:28 on the timer of that video, you can see a classic example of the bobbing-lag effect of a driver who just mashes the pedal. he nosedived about 6 inches between shifts.

he put it in race-mode just prior to 3:28, so he has benefit of the quicker shift-time, but having only driven the car for a couple days (as he said earlier in the video), he hasnt yet picked up the finesse to lessen the shifting bob-lag.

does anyone out there recognize that nose-dive as they shift their smartie?
feather the gas with finesse... you'll get the hang of it shortly!

(i wouldnt call a porsche turbo a canal boat though...)