450 pricing dropping?

[24-42]

Originally Posted by CruisingAZ

Excuse me...

1) Mercedes engine with it's problems compared to the newer modified motor
2) Turbo charger, certainly available soon in after market
3) Third party?
4) Lower cost? How do you get that?
5) 4 year warranty will be up at the same time the 2008 expires.

just my baseless conjecture ;) IMHO

Excuse you.

Your 3,4 and 5, if you look closer, are one sentence. Note- comma's not periods

Third party,lower cost, no deductible, 4 year,included towing, 50,000mi warranty.

1. Mercedes engine is not having problems, it's the 451 transmission with the problems

2. If a turbo charger becomes available, would you care to guess how much the price will be (plus labor)? That will bring the total much closer to the 450.
3. You forgot to counter the 6speed trans.
Also you must have missed engine rpm (can you say "Longevity?)and, last but certainly not least)GAS MILEAGE.

Nothing personal; Come on back, I'm enjoying this. Say something constructive but stay on subject. ( I have never used a Smiley before)

Donald LaFavor

[CruisingAZ]

Sorry didn't know your opinion was the only one that mattered.

So much for freedom of open discussion.

[Carnut]

Originally Posted by CruisingAZ

Sorry didn't know your opinion was the only one that mattered.

So much for freedom of open discussion.

With all due respect, Donald has as much freedom right to his side of an OPEN discussion as anyone else, no? He even softened it with his first emoticon smiley. Donald we know you love your 450, and if I could get my hands on one for 15K I'd snap the little bugger up myself.;)

[24-42]

Originally Posted by CruisingAZ

Sorry didn't know your opinion was the only one that mattered.

So much for freedom of open discussion.

Your opinion DOES matter to me ! From a frank factful discussion, both parties learn and win. I don't wish to win alone, I want us both to win.
You are completely missing my point. I DO value your opinion. one of the reasons I advocated this 'Vis a Vis' was after reading your posts, I respect you. Any time I disagree with you, I still respect you.

Speaking for myself and I bet you too, I do not wish to debate someone I don't respect or value what they have to say.

I have not intended to, nor will I ever intend to offend you or insult your intelligence. That's not my bag.

IMHO you are among the minority on this site with which I would like to banter.

Donald

[24-42]

Originally Posted by Carnut

With all due respect, Donald has as much freedom right to his side of an OPEN discussion as anyone else, no? He even softened it with his first emoticon smiley. Donald we know you love your 450, and if I could get my hands on one for 15K I'd snap the little bugger up myself.;)

Thank you "Carnut"; You saw my essence not my gravamen.
I see he is off line, I hope tomorrow he sees my true intent. I sometimes have trouble along these lines.

You see I was born in France (a long time ago) and had the most wonderful wise father ever. But Americans are very difficult for me sometimes. I find most don't know how to have a discussion. I also find many French people are 'Bull-headed'. My grandfather had his mind made up and didn't want to hear any facts. Many Americans only want to change your mind and have you agree with them.

Two people taking opposite sides to a matter have the ability to learn from each other provided they really listen and subject-wise they stay on track.

Listen to the other person- recognize and grant the validity of what the other person is saying is their belief. It is not fruitful to try and convince a person you respect to become a clone of your beliefs. we learn by taking opposing sides (Debates).

Can you imagine Catholic and a protestant having a discussion about religion ?
How about a Democrat and a Republican ?

In conclusion, I would like to have cruisingAZ tell what he like about the 450 and I will tell what I like about the 451. After that got threshed out, He could tell what he doesn't like about the 451 and Ill tell what I don't like about the 450. Then we laugh and go have coffee. Carnut, you're invited.

BTW Carnut I only paid 17k for my Passion ( the car model is 'Passion' also)

Donald

[ASmartMan]

Hey All

My line of thinking pretty much parallels Ron's.

Gray model value, Today vs Tomorrow

Well today there is about a 1 year wait for any 08/09 Smart (speculation on my part), I believe as long as the waiting list is this long the Gray Smarts will hold value

Today there are probably more locations in the US to service the 450 than the 60-70 451 dealers in the US (once again speculation)

Today there isn't any part for the 450 that you can't find/buy (even thought it would have to be bought in from Ca/EU), and there is a vast list of 3rd party parts/mods and most of these mods can be added with out voiding our warranty.

Tomorrow with the # of 451s in use/circulating and with dealer inventory meeting or exceeding demand, I don't believe the 450 will hold it's current value.

Tomorrow the # of dealers will expand, the # of 3rd party service locations too will grow, far exceeding any support level we (450 owners) currently have.

Tomorrow the list of mods/after market parts available available for the 451 will skyrocket while going to underground status for the 450.

Having said all the above, would I sell my 450 today, well, NO. Tomorrow when my 450 drops a LOT in value, I'll still be driving it and actually (because of the dropped value) tomorrow I may buy a 2nd 450 for parts.

This is about the 3rd or 4th time I've seen a statement like this "Mercedes engine with it's problems". I'm not sure where this comes from, but in the research I did before buying a 450 (Ca/EU/As threads) I didn't see a problem with the .7 L MB motor, I was actually relieved to see the lack of problems with the G2 model (699 cc).

In reading the various threads, most who own a 451 after owning a 450 have nothing but good things to say about the 451, they like the larger size, better stability, 5 speed xmission, and the power of the 1L motor, but not the loss in fuel economy. The comments seem to be the 451 is the same kind of improvement they saw between the G1 to G2.

Seeing a few people have spoken/compared models of Corvettes, I'll continue using the same apology, in the early 70's when shopping for a new Corvette, I'm sure some saw the newer model had vast improvements over the mid 60's split window model, yet today ether is highly desirable.

C'mon guys, let's not do the Caption Morgan stance proclaiming who's model is better, they both have their niche and value in their own right.

Well my $.02 worth

ASM

[SMARTCAR95]

when the first smart cars reached the Usa the were any where from 22,500 to 31,500 now they are like 17,999 to 21,500.

[ASmartMan]

SMARTCAR95

Could you post the names of those dealers selling the G&K converted Smarts for that price, there have been a few on this thread looking for "New" G&Ks.

At that price (for the impatient) it's a good deal, also I'll add those dealers to the list.

ASM

[Fredvon4]

Do any of you Mercedes MCC 450 turbo motors got over 100K on the clock yet?

The problem with the Mercedes MCC motor is two fold...the turbo manifold on some versions was engineered wrong and cracked...snuffing exhaust valves and costing MB a bunch of bucks in out of warranty repairs (their real reason the went with Mitsubishi BTW) To their credit they did change the manifold for a better version ....

the second problem was major rebuilds at around 80 thousand miles due to cooling and oiling problems...this was predominantly in the 599cc versions as I understand

Mercedes earned the bad rap for the micro motor as far as I am concerned and one of the major reasons this motor head did not seriously consider one after I learned they were changing motors to go with mitsubishi

MCC = poor oil control, excessive oil heat from the turbo, weak valve springs, poor engine longevity IMO