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post #1 of 75 (permalink) Old 06-23-2008, 08:15 PM Thread Starter
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Finally, an answer for extra keys (I hope)!

Hi Everybody in the Original Smart Community (only "450" folks),
No solution afterall. Further study revealed that although it can be done, the cost is a lot higher than I had been told. So is the work required by the owner. Not interested in pursuing this solution at this time. I'm still attempting to find a better one for everyone. Stay tuned.

I've eliminated the original message here in order to prevent confusion.

Ron Gaus, asmartcar.com, St. Louis

Last edited by rgaus; 06-24-2008 at 03:26 PM.
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post #2 of 75 (permalink) Old 06-24-2008, 10:39 AM
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Ron,

Is this a fobless key for opening doors and starting car? i.e. all metal that could go surfing?

either way, let's give it a try. You have my VIN from my recent medallion buy but here it is again: WMEEK31X28K165446

P.S. I'd like to think you can't get a key this way since VIN numbers are visible from the exterior of a vehicle. It would make stealing them very easy.

- David -

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post #3 of 75 (permalink) Old 06-24-2008, 12:45 PM Thread Starter
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David, whoops! You have a 2008! We can't do those. Sorry. In fact, after further study, even the earlier smarts don't have an easy solution at this point... but we are still looking for one.
Ron

Last edited by rgaus; 06-24-2008 at 03:16 PM. Reason: Got too excited
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post #4 of 75 (permalink) Old 06-25-2008, 02:48 PM
 
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Ron,
What years can you do? I have a 2003 that my second key quit working on. Since I am 500 miles from my G&K dealer (Green Car Co.), I have not taken back to them yet for warranty replacement, so perhaps your method using the VIN will save a major roadtrip for the repair.

Tom
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post #5 of 75 (permalink) Old 06-25-2008, 05:04 PM
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idahosmart

You have 2 dead keys?????? If I pay for the shipping can I have them(just the electronics), both my keys work and I want to dig into 1 SSSSOOOO bad, I'll even make you a deal (or try to) I'll only work on 1 at a time and if I find a problem and I believe I can fix the 2nd key, I'll fix it and send it back.

Let me know what you think

ASM






PS as you can see I have already looked, but because my key works I couldn't pull off the battery holed to see the circuit below it

Last edited by ASmartMan; 06-25-2008 at 05:38 PM. Reason: to add photos
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post #6 of 75 (permalink) Old 06-26-2008, 06:58 AM
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Tom

At work this morning a peer and I were talking about how these keys might work, we were looking at the photos figuring out how the circuit works.

Scott (peer) look up this subject on How Stuff Works http://auto.howstuffworks.com/remote-entry2.htm we found it interesting reading.

The thing that caught my eye was how to fix it, Tom could you try the suggested cure and let us know if it works.

I think everyone should read the article, as this may be the common denominator in all the remote failures, not just the Smarts

Hoping it works

ASM
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post #7 of 75 (permalink) Old 06-26-2008, 10:01 AM
 
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WOW! wouldn't it be great to know if this works? I can't wait to find out.

Hurry up Tom.
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post #8 of 75 (permalink) Old 06-26-2008, 04:33 PM
 
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I have one dead key, not two. The one that is "dead" I replaced the battery on, but as soon as any buttons are pushed on the remote, it blinks the lights on the smart car 9 times, the alert that normally tells us to replace the battery in the remote. But I have a new battery in it. It will start the car if the security lock is already disengaged by the working key, but that is useless if the primary working key quits working.

So perhaps it has lost its synchronization. I will try the procedure suggested on the HowStuffWorks page. If it is a sync problem, then my secondary key may have just got out of sync because I did not use it for a while, as I used the other key for the previous 256+ unlocks.

Tom
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post #9 of 75 (permalink) Old 06-26-2008, 04:45 PM
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Greetings All

This will be a geeky post as well as long, OOHH where do I start?

First, it is possible the 450 keys and the 451 keys are made the same (just a GUESS on my part) so what has been discovered today may help the 451 owners as well and expose me to a wrist slapping.

Let’s start with the FOB, http://www.atmel.com/dyn/resources/p...ts/doc4591.pdf this is the brains of the remote and MUCH to my surprise is very complicated and does much more that I ever expected. This remote does 2 things and could fail in 2 ways, 1st it is a remote for unlocking the car and 2nd it is an RFID (Radio Frequency Identification chip), OOHH and is programmable.

As a remote I don’t believe it is as complicated as the “How Stuff Works” post I did this morning, and nothing I have read in the application notes suggest the key word rolls, but a long keyword it is and I have not read everything as of yet.

As an RFID it too isn’t super complicated but putting both together is a **** buster. Some may wonder what an RFID chip is and how it works, well we see and use them every day. Anyone have a pet? When you go to the vet and they take that wand and pass it over the neck it activates that RFID chip (the magnetic field of the wand as it passes over the chip induces a voltage giving the chip power to transmit the pet’s serial number)? Anyone work at a company where your ID badge is swiped over something to unlock a door? Well there is a RFID chip in that badge. There is the same kind of chip in the FOB as well.

So the 2 failures you could see are 1: doors don’t unlock (failure of the remote portion of that FOB) or 2: you’re able to unlock the doors but the car doesn’t start (failure of the RFID part of the FOB)

By reading the application sheets I found this is the receiver for the remote/RFID combo Atmel Products - Product Card that is in the car somewhere (maybe in the SAM unit or in this FQ101 : Smart Car Modifications ) and that too is programmable.

Now we come to the part where I speculate (guess), I have heard that you can’t order a Smart key unless you give a VIN#. I believe the VIN# you give is programmed as the RFID serial # (makes sense), then to get the key to lock/unlock that is where you need to go to the dealer (I’m not going to guess here because it could a few things new code/reset code/etc) to get the remote part activated.

Today both my keys work, but from what I’ve read this problem is only a matter of time and there is NO way I’ll let a 25K investment become a 1,600 pound paper weight, even if I have to buy the developers kit for these chips. AND if the 450 keys are the same as the 451 keys MB may want to rethink their snubbing of we gray owners because I LIKE TO SHARE

ASM

Last edited by ASmartMan; 06-26-2008 at 04:56 PM. Reason: spacing
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post #10 of 75 (permalink) Old 06-26-2008, 08:36 PM Thread Starter
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Great post, ASM...

Ron
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