450 more expensive
451 cheaper
450 original small size
451 newer larger size
450 grey market, first wave of ZAP dealers bit the dust
451 serviced and sold by 50+ dealers many are MB others well established dealers
450 hard to get Auto Club to know how to fix it or find a tire
451 free 2 yr roadside assistance powered by Penske
450 older
451 newer
450 seemily poorer fit and finish
451 excellent fit and finish
Tom,
Where to you get your car serviced? I'm thinking about getting a 450 instead of waiting for the 451. Pros and cons on the 450?
thanks, Jerry
I have done my own service on the car, since my G&K dealer is 500 miles away. I knew that I was getting a vehicle that may be hard to get service for, but prior to purchase, I had talked with 2 local European car service shops, plus the Mercedes dealer. The European shops were excited to be able to work on the car, and asked me to bring it in so they could check it out when I got it. They looked it over and saw that they could service it, and asked for the sources for the filters, etc, or asked that I provide them myself. But so far (knock on wood) I have been able to do the oil changes myself, and also recharge the AC myself. I have not had to rely on outside service yet. The local Mercedes dealer shop told me they could not work on the car as they would only work on cars models that they sell.
Pros and cons of 450/451? Thats tough, as they each are unique in their own way:
Safety - The 451 has side airbags standard, whereas side air bags were an option on the 450. The longer nose of the 451 was made to improve pedestrian safety.
Mileage - The 450 gets better MPG than the 451, mostly due to its smaller displacement and its turbocharger. The 450 also can run on lower octane fuel than the 451.
Performance - Since I have not driven a 451 yet, I can't really compare it.
Looks - The 450 is the original smart body shape. The 451 still has the same basic shape and most people would not even notice the difference in size without having both models next to each other. The interior is where most of the looks change; the 450 has the curvy dash, whereas the 451 is straight. The 450 interior trim could also easy have pieces swapped to different colors to match the exterior if you do a panel swap. I don't know if the 451 can easily swap interior trim.
Size - Interior space on the 451 is slightly larger for more cargo, but cabin space for people is about the same. The longer length of the 451 makes it not an option for some of the RV people that haul them on their rigs perpendicular, as it then makes their rig too wide. Code in most (if not all) US states do not allow the vehicles to park perpendicular to the curb like you see them do in Europe. But if that code was to ever change in the US, the 451 is too long to fit within the 8-foot wide parking spot.
Cost - Yes, the 451 is about half the cost of the 450 (assuming the dealers don't add on additional dealer markup over MSRP). The passion model that was converted by G&K was an $18,000 car in Europe, and the importing and conversion costs were about $5000, so they are not making much profit on the G&K converted 450 models.
Idaho smart. that's what I call an 'Objective' post. Having driven both I feel I am qualified to agree with you.
In this Mini-smart nation of ours, the last thing I want to see is, "modelphobic Smartians".
Specifically, I chose the 450 after driving both models. Each has unique features. IMHO; the 450 has more mechanical features, and that to me takes precedence. IE:
Higher Mileage
6 speed trans. (lower RPM at Highway speeds)
Shorter overall length
Rear quarter windows
Tried, tested, and proven Mercedes engine (plus turbo charged)
Other reasons are minor and 'Picky'.
Was it worth the price premium? It was to me, the one who wrote the check.
Would I do it all over again? YES !
Would I buy a 451 if there were no more 450s?, Yes
Could I be happy with a 451?, YES !
I, without reservation, endorse, support and respect anyone else's choices (for whatever their reasoning). Opinions are another thing.
If I had all of my 'Druthers', I would make a model "452", made up of parts and features of both 450 & 451. The one thing I would take from another brand would be, the suspension from the Citreon DS21 (including steering-controled headlights)
That is my 2 cents, marks, francs, pence, etc.
What sets us apart, is we're ALL "Smart"
Donald LaFavor
Last edited by 24-42; 11-17-2007 at 10:39 PM.
Reason: Additional thought
We have a 450 that we have had since Mar-06 and a 451 that we picked up just yesterday (since we both commute 25-30 miles and both wanted to drive the 450).
The 450 gets better mileage than we've seen advertised for the 451 (especially with the air scoop and K&N filter added) and it has better acceleration and shifting. The 451 has more features... although Zap and G&K just brought over what they could, so you didn't have much of a chance to customize the older cars.
We asked yesterday whether the dealer in Dallas, TX, would service our old Smart too, and we were told that they would (although they're checking on availability of 450 parts). In the past, we did our own oil changes and ordered accessories from Canada or the UK. We did take it to a repair shop that specialized in imports when we had a problem beyond our abilities. Except for hooking it up for diagnostics (and they contacted our dealer in WA for assistance with the codes), they said it was like working on other Mercedes cars.
FYI, got a call back from the Smart dealer... they will NOT service gray-market smarts... apparently that was a condition imposed on the service departments when setting up a dealership. I got a story about how the people who brought in the early smarts were trying to cirmcumvent a contract with Smart GMBH by bringing them to the US... not the story that Zap and G&K tell, of course. But the service person said he'd try to see if he can find out who can work on them in the area, since we're the 2nd person to ask since they opened earlier in the month.
I called the Smart Dealer in San Antonio today...the gave me the number for Smart service, when I tried it, the service people put me back to thee dealer...who told me they can't even order parts for pre-2008 Smarts! Not even Tires...bummer !
I have talked up the Smarts for over two years...and now this is discouraging. The only ones that can do diagnostics appear to have the MB STAR system, but they don't know the codes...cannot even reset the airbag light. (Anyone have any info on this...mine is a 2000, before the OBDE II?). Would not think they would want to upset their very best, knowlegable sales people!
Any suggestions on where to get a Smart worked on? I bought mone from a friend, who bought it on e-bay from a guy in Florida, who may have imported it himself...so no G&K as far as I know. Any recommendations on Smart Parts?
FYI, got a call back from the Smart dealer... they will NOT service gray-market smarts... apparently that was a condition imposed on the service departments when setting up a dealership. I got a story about how the people who brought in the early smarts were trying to cirmcumvent a contract with Smart GMBH by bringing them to the US... not the story that Zap and G&K tell, of course. But the service person said he'd try to see if he can find out who can work on them in the area, since we're the 2nd person to ask since they opened earlier in the month.
Zim's Autotechnik in Bedford will service the 450s. They had a black/red one in the service department today for a tune up. Their number is 817.267.4451
I've had my 2005 Passion Cabrio cdi now for close to a year and loved every minute of it. I mostly do my own maintenance by ordering parts from either Europe or Canada as needed for general maintenance.
Had to charge the A/C once but found it to be very easy and used local A/C charge kit from Auto Zone to complete the process.
My 2005 is a full Euro spec vehicle with the original Mercedes diesel engine. If I baby it on the highway I can squeeze over 70mpg (US) and zooming around town without any cares I get in the upper 50's mpg.
Now that we have a local dealer here in Austin, TX I've visited them a couple times and found them to be very helpful, and if I need any service down the road they said they would be glad to help out. I popped in a new cruise control stalk by replacing the wiper stalk, all the cruise control wiring was installed in these vehicles and you only need to change out the stalk and get the dealer to add the TAN code via their STAR computer to read it. The dealer says they should have all the computer codes for the 450's by the end of March 08. So, I'm waiting patiently.
Add me to the list of Grey Smart owners. I have two of the G&K conversions. They are regular unleaded fuel engines, Mercedes Benz 0.7L Turbo. Interstingly, the German one has a 95 Octane only warning on the inside of the fuel door. Looks like i better buy octane booster as Colorado's highest is 91.
First is an all silver 2005 Smart Passion Coupe, number 107 of the 1026 conversions G&K did.
Mods so far:
+ Removed headlining to expose Panorama roof
+ Billet airballs
+ Billet knobs for A/C and Radio
+ Billet Tacho and Clock rings
+ Billet speedo exterior ring
+ Billet fuel door
+ K&N Filter
+ S-Mann air scoop (anyone know where I can find another?)
+ Chrome twin tailpipe tip
+ 3-stage fog lights (hooked up to run as DRLs as well)
+ Mercedes valve stem caps
+ Chrome front grill
+ Rear window handle/grip ($44 from your Smart dealer)
+ Driver's seat drawer (goes under the seat, available through your Smart dealer for $137)
+ Extra tow hook (so two are in the car at all times)
+ Brabus pedal kit
Second is a black with silver tridion cell 2006 German Smart, number 475 of the 1026 G&K conversions, with 200 original miles.
Mods so far:
+ K&N filter
Mods on order:
+ Brabus pedals
+ rear window handle/grip
+ driver's seat drawer
+ Brabus fuel door
Last edited by briansmart; 09-16-2008 at 09:31 PM.
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, as time goes by I would love to here advantages/ disadvantages you see in each.
! 
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