I'm still ramping up on the 451 (and have a long way to go); so apologies if this has been addressed elsewhere. I may not be using the proper search terms.
Does anyone know the differences between the 71 hp engine and the 84 hp engine?
I'm still ramping up on the 451 (and have a long way to go); so apologies if this has been addressed elsewhere. I may not be using the proper search terms.
Does anyone know the differences between the 71 hp engine and the 84 hp engine?
Will this turbocharger bolt right on to the existing engine? ;) Are internal engine components of the 84 hp version made from different materials to better handle the greater stress?
Does anyone have any thoughts on whether the turbo engine will not be available in the US due to emissions?
Will this turbocharger bolt right on to the existing engine? ;) Are internal engine components of the 84 hp version made from different materials to better handle the greater stress?
Does anyone have any thoughts on whether the turbo engine will not be available in the US due to emissions?
It is interesting to note that in Europe, the naturally aspirated (n.a.) engine is 11.4:1 compression and the turbo is 10:1 compression, whereas here in the U.S. the n.a. engine is rumored to be 10:1. This would imply that a simple bolt-on of a factory turbo and ECU reprogramming (with factory intake and exhaust piping) would be possible. A 13 horse difference is not large enough to require heftier components, and there has not been any indication that, other than the compression ratio, there are any differences between the engines.
I believe the turbo will be available in time after MB has done sufficient testing to certify the emissions for US standards. Most foreign manufacturers will phase introduction of their higher powered units to the US.
It is interesting to note that in Europe, the naturally aspirated (n.a.) engine is 11.4:1 compression and the turbo is 10:1 compression, whereas here in the U.S. the n.a. engine is rumored to be 10:1. This would imply that a simple bolt-on of a factory turbo and ECU reprogramming (with factory intake and exhaust piping) would be possible. A 13 horse difference is not large enough to require heftier components, and there has not been any indication that, other than the compression ratio, there are any differences between the engines.
I believe the turbo will be available in time after MB has done sufficient testing to certify the emissions for US standards. Most foreign manufacturers will phase introduction of their higher powered units to the US.
The changes to an engine to be supercharged typically include stronger reciprocating parts and improved oiling for cooling... read more expensive stuff that costs more money is usually not given away.
karl
In general you are correct....but in the case of this Mitsubishi motor I suspect the only difference mechanically is the two compression ratios.
While I am not a Mitsubishi motor guru I am very familiar with the Nissan VG30ET motors. Across the V6 3L normally aspirated, single, or twin turbo versions, the only difference is Compression Ratio derived from cylinder head Combustion Chamber CC volume differences... every other part is identical.
I am looking into the factory turbo from wellsmart UK.
I am fairly certain it is mechanically possible to just bolt the components on to our NA low CR motors... This will be fairly expensive because there are zero aftermarket parts.... The main assy will not be out of sight $$ but we must remember to factor all the little pieces like intercooler, hoses, oil lines, electrical harness, waste gate linkage...etc
The bigger problem will be the tuning.... the Turbo and non Turbo ECUs will have different fuel and ignition mapping.... Until we get local smart guys here (pun intended) that can do the tune by plugging into the ODB port we will have to send our ECU to Europe or China to be modified....
There are a few sources for 450 tunes on a chip.... but this ECU design requires desoldering and removing the EPROM then soldering in a new one.... because these are all RohS compliant (no lead solder or components) that operation is now beyond the typical home hobbyist
This will not bother those of us who heavily mod motors but it needs to be said....
All of these ideas will definitely void our warranty if adopted
There is some real good news for motor modders...
The entire power package can be dropped out from under the Lil bugger in less then 30 min.... Easier to remove then the old VW motor
I am also researching a source for rebuilt 451 motors.... eventually the motor will be available semi inexpensivly... think max overbore and cam changes...wink
As far as two Mitsu motors I know:
The 1991-1999 6g72 (3.0 Lt DOHC V-6)-use the same rods and cranks for both the Turbo and NA versions. The blocks are SLIGHTLY different, but people have used NA blocks for some pretty high HP applications with some success.
As for the ~89-99 4G63s (2.0 Lt I-4) amd am pretty sure it's the same story-same rods and cranks, different pistions.
In both, I believe the NA versions lack oil squirters; some people prefer to eliminate those anyway as some feel the can lead to loss of oil pressure if/when the squirters stick open.
Going between NA and turbo, larger injectors needed and the larger Mitsu ones are higher resistance versions-that usually neccessitates cutting a NA harness or replacing with a turbo harness in order to add in a resistor pack. I suppose as little HP as these cars are putting out, there might be some lower resitance injectors that might work.
Otherwise, I'm thinking a boost presure driven FPR (fuel pressure regulator) is going to be needed, and probably a larger fuel pump.
I'm curious as to how these cars read airflow- Mistu cars had a Karman Vortex-style MAF for the last 15 years or so-but the few pics I've seen don't suggest there is one on the Smart.
I'm also interested to see how similar this 3B2 (pretty sure I have this engine code right) in the smart is in design to the new family of engines Mitsu is producing for their cars- especally the newest Evolution X. I plan to look over that way a lot to see how well this new aluminum block and chain driven design does- there a bound to be a fair number of shops racing to extract ever more rediculous HP numbers out of the new Evo 4B11T engine.
OK guys, sorry for all the rambling. I probably will go back and clean up what I've written some time. I just want to close by saying that I am hopeful that if the factory doesn't provide sufficent prerformance and gas mileage, I am counting on there being an aftermarket to provide it.
Last edited by Mitspowered; 12-09-2007 at 09:30 PM.
Thanks gang. I suspected it wouldn't quite be plug and play and appreciate all of the details and insight.
Where available the Barabus carries a fairly disproportionate premium for the amount of increased power. I know it includes other upgrades to the suspension, brakes, ... but still. If it were to command a similar premium in the U.S., the price point would be in the territory of noteworthy competitors.
The AutoGuide.com network consists of the largest network of enthusiast-owned enthusiast-operated automotive communities.
AutoGuide.com provides the latest car reviews, auto show coverage, new car prices, and automotive news. The AutoGuide network operates more than 100 automotive forums where our users consult peers for shopping information and advice, and share opinions as a community.
Today
Linear Mode
