Is diesel really cheaper.

vanslam · 03-20-2008, 09:40 PM

With all this talk about diesel cars being better values I started to think if that would be the case with the smart car. In comparing the prices of premium gas to diesel fuel in NJ. Premium goes for 3.20 now and diesel goes for 3.96 thats a 76 cents or 24% difference. So if I am getting 40 miles to a gallon in my smart I would have to get at least 49.6 miles to gallon in a diesel just to be equal.

Now the cheapest new diesel in NJ is the Mercedes (52k+) but the car purchase cost is not in the same ball park as the smart. So that leaves the Volkswagon Jetta should it ever get here. But the Jetta would cost twice as much as a smart car.

So I just don't see the diesel solution being the better option for a smart car owner. Now if there was a smart turbo diesel I wonder how the cost would equate/compare to the gas smart. Even if the cars cost the same with the difference in the price of gas we are back to the 49.6 miles to a gallon the diesel would have to achieve to be even with the gas smart.

Now if Dave777 drove the gas smart with his 52 sick mpg you would have to get better than 64.5 mpg in the diesel just to be even. Its a tough sell.

smartfloridadad · 03-21-2008, 02:16 AM

I own a 06 Diesel Mercedes E320CDI and in florida were close to the 4.00 a gallon price here, driving conserative with cruse control on I drove from st pete florida to grand rapids michigan on a tank and a half one way ,before I got my smart ,I could go close to 7 weeks on a tank of gas in the city around(580 miles) the best I ever got on the highway was (735 miles) to a tank,if the smart were to have come in a Diesel it would be in my driveway now
The Mercedes in the city gets me close to 28 in the city ,my smart has only got me 33 ,and it weights less than half the MB

Smitty · 03-21-2008, 03:38 AM

I am convinced the goverment is keeping diesel prices high to discourage us from wanting these. My son has a 96 VW Passat, he gets about 38 driving arround (we live in the burbs) and about 52 keeping it below75 on the highway. My 04 Saab 9/5 Aero gets on a trip about 33 highway and 22 arround town. The Smart highway mileage is hindered by drag. Diesel is nice and it was better when diesel was about .50 cheeper than gas.

Tim

Old smart · 03-21-2008, 04:24 AM

The rise in diesel price is due to the recent EPA requirement to refine and distribute Ultra-Low Sulphur Diesel (ULSD or D15) for on-road use. It is more costly to produce, and also more costly to distribute due to the extreme purity that it must remain at during transportation and storage. Any custodian (not just owner) of ULSD that exceeds the 15 parts-per-million sulphur standard faces onerous federal fines. In light of that, the pipeline companies only accept ULSD at 8 ppm as a hedge against transit contamination. Refining D8 is even more costly than D15.

Custodians also include distribution terminals, truckers, and point-of-sale retailers. All the costs of the required tank cleaning also adds to the pump price.

paratwa · 03-21-2008, 04:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smitty

I am convinced the goverment is keeping diesel prices high to discourage us from wanting these.

Why would the government what to discourage diesel passenger cars?

**jwight** · 03-21-2008, 06:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by paratwa

Why would the government what to discourage diesel passenger cars?

At the risk of "over moderating", SCoA forum guidelines don't allow for political discussion. So, if the question can be answered without delving into politics, have at it.

Smitty · 03-21-2008, 08:08 AM

10/4 on politics. In europe 50 ppm diesel is way cheeper than gas which has heavy tax on it diesel doesnt.

**jwight** · 03-21-2008, 09:21 AM

Here's what I put together from a couple of smart sites:

(from Canada) smart coupe 1.0 liter Combined estimate: 4.2 l/100 km

(from France) turbodiesel engine TDCI of 0,8 L posts 33 kw (consumption in l/100 km, mixed cycle[1 ]: 3,3, emissions of CO2, mixed cycle, in g/km[1 ]: 88).

(from France) smart mhd coupe: consumption of 4,3 l/100 km for a CO2 emission of 103 g/km in mixed cycle; smart mhd cabrio: consumption of 4,4 l/100 km for a CO2 emission of 105 g/km in mixed cycle [ 1 ]

So, in order of best fuel consumption:

Euro turbodiesel (800 cc) = 3.3 l/100km
North American 1 liter = 4.2 l/100 km
Euro MHD (1 liter?) = 4.3 l/100km (coupe)
Euro MHD (1 liter?) = 4.4 l/100km (cabrio)

jonnysan · 03-21-2008, 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vanslam

With all this talk about diesel cars being better values I started to think if that would be the case with the smart car. In comparing the prices of premium gas to diesel fuel in NJ. Premium goes for 3.20 now and diesel goes for 3.96 thats a 76 cents or 24% difference. So if I am getting 40 miles to a gallon in my smart I would have to get at least 49.6 miles to gallon in a diesel just to be equal.

Now the cheapest new diesel in NJ is the Mercedes (52k+) but the car purchase cost is not in the same ball park as the smart. So that leaves the Volkswagon Jetta should it ever get here. But the Jetta would cost twice as much as a smart car.

So I just don't see the diesel solution being the better option for a smart car owner. Now if there was a smart turbo diesel I wonder how the cost would equate/compare to the gas smart. Even if the cars cost the same with the difference in the price of gas we are back to the 49.6 miles to a gallon the diesel would have to achieve to be even with the gas smart.

Now if Dave777 drove the gas smart with his 52 sick mpg you would have to get better than 64.5 mpg in the diesel just to be even. Its a tough sell.

Is to opt for the PHEV and just away from liquid fuels nearly altogether. Ofcourse, this option for the Smart is not yet available but I believe it will be in a couple of years...hoping anyway.....

Smartiepants99 · 03-21-2008, 09:49 AM

I don't know that you would want a diesel anyway the way gas prices are going up. Just two days ago, my dad filled up his big diesel truck and it was $3.999 a gallon. I remember not that long ago diesel was way cheaper than gas.....When my dad bought the diesel truck, the dealership said that it would get way better mpg, but it ended up being only like 1-3 mpg better....anyway....I just thought I would put my opinion out there....