Is diesel really cheaper.

[dcrooks]

I have now seen diesel as high as $4.25. There are 3 gas stations right near me and I figured I better get out and fill up my truck at the 1 station at $3.99 because the other 2 were $4.09 and $4.19.

On the other hand, I filled up my smart and got 48.5mpg! That is highest so far and I have just over 2,000 miles on it.

[Carnut]

This discussion will be different come the summer when gas will zoom and diesel will drop. ;)

[vanslam]

Maybe, but I haven't seen diesel drop below premium car gas prices yet. But there is always a first time for everything and we do have all summer ahead of us. While we are at it maybe we should also wish for aviation fuel prices to drop also, I'd really like that.

[brian r]

Originally Posted by vanslam

Premium goes for 3.20 now and diesel goes for 3.96 thats a 76 cents or 24% difference. So if I am getting 40 miles to a gallon in my smart I would have to get at least 49.6 miles to gallon in a diesel just to be equal.

Now the cheapest new diesel in NJ is the Mercedes (52k+) but the car purchase cost is not in the same ball park as the smart. So that leaves the Volkswagon Jetta should it ever get here. But the Jetta would cost twice as much as a smart car

Friends of ours have 2 Jetta TDIs. One is an '06 purchased new for $21k, the other is a '98 converted to biodiesel. They get worst case mid 40s in town, and mid 50s on the highway. Last summer my son went on a trip with them and said they saw 57-58 mpg on one tank (regular diesel). I paid $3.60 this morning for 93, and diesel was $4.05. I'm still taking delivery of my fortwo, but if I could only own one car, a TDI is a lot more car than a smart, particularly for cross-country travel. If the Rabbit becomes available with the TDI, (the current base price is $15,600 and $16.9k for a Jetta) the fortwo won't be the best choice by a long shot for many people.

[Carnut]

Originally Posted by brian r

Friends of ours have 2 Jetta TDIs. One is an '06 purchased new for $21k, the other is a '98 converted to biodiesel. They get worst case mid 40s in town, and mid 50s on the highway. Last summer my son went on a trip with them and said they saw 57-58 mpg on one tank (regular diesel). I paid $3.60 this morning for 93, and diesel was $4.05. I'm still taking delivery of my fortwo, but if I could only own one car, a TDI is a lot more car than a smart, particularly for cross-country travel. If the Rabbit becomes available with the TDI, (the current base price is $15,600 and $16.9k for a Jetta) the fortwo won't be the best choice by a long shot for many people.

Exactly why I am now a happy camper. Bought a 2005.5 Jetta TDI with only 33K miles, real 6 speed tiptronic (no lurch) every conceivable option you could ask for, the mpg as stated (town so far avg 44.6, hwy 50.8) all for $16,700.00! Will somebody please buy my smart on eBay. ;)

[vanslam]

So let me get this straight you bought an old car for more than a new car and get 25% betters mpg while spending 25% more for fuel (in my neck of the woods - premium vs diesel price). Sounds like a tie to me.
But if you include all the smiles and fun in the Smart, I say the Jetta should be for sale.

[jwight]

$16,700 sounds right in the smart ballpark to me. Any car that burns less fuel is a winner in my book, whether it's a smart, a VW diesel or a Prius. Glad you found something that works for you and is fuel efficient.

[knutliott]

Don't compare a smart to a Jetta TDI... that's apples and oranges. Compare the Jetta TDI (45/55 from above) to a gas Jetta (22/29 from fueleconomy.gov), then extrapolate the mileage increase onto a (wishful thinking) smart 451 diesel. That'd put the smart 451 conservatively into the 55/65 range, which is very believable based on the smart 450 gas vs diesel comparison.

Diesel is easily the way to go over gas of any grade, but it's tough to do an accurate comparison because so few vehicles are available in both gas and diesel models.

[CritterMI]

Actually, if you make your own biodiesel using one of the available kits, diesel is about 70 cents to 1 dollar a gallon. Fuel Miester is one such product.

I would prefer a cdi/hybrid combination that uses a small diesel to power electric motors at the wheels. One could even make an all wheel drive version for a reasonable price.

[brian r]

Originally Posted by knutliott

Don't compare a smart to a Jetta TDI... that's apples and oranges. Compare the Jetta TDI (45/55 from above) to a gas Jetta (22/29 from fueleconomy.gov), then extrapolate the mileage increase onto a (wishful thinking) smart 451 diesel. That'd put the smart 451 conservatively into the 55/65 range, which is very believable based on the smart 450 gas vs diesel comparison.

The reason that you shouldn't compare any fortwo to a TDI is that with the VW, you can attain 50+ MPG all day as you move 4 people and their huge trunk full of stuff across country with a 750 mile tank-range, while traveling in comfort and quiet that a smart could never attain. Not to mention amazing stability at 80 mph.

The fortwo is a city car by design, not an all-around vehicle. Not bad, just different. Any comparison to a 451 diesel should be made if/when a US-spec car becomes available.