Is diesel really cheaper.

[jwight]

As posted earlier, the Euro version 800cc turbo diesel smart 451 is rated at 3.3 l/100km, or 71.27 miles per gallon. Not too shabby, but also not available to the North American market.

[sk8ndad]

Personally, I think its a huge mistake to not offer an engine that is considered one of the greenest in the world and gets over 70 mpg.

[RussBarnes]

Originally Posted by sk8ndad

Personally, I think its a huge mistake to not offer an engine that is considered one of the greenest in the world and gets over 70 mpg.

OK, why don't we - well because we don't either vote with our wallets and buy every diesel they make or we keep voting boobs that care about health care and liberal policies into office. Personally we have five vehicles and two people - three are diesels and if the smart were available in the TDI it would have been too. I told the dealer if there is even a strong rumor that one is coming, mine is going on the block and I'm signing up on the next list. BTW, for the record the fifth is gas cause it was given to us by mother in law that had to quit driving.

[Old smart]

THERE ARE NO PLANS TO BRING SMART DIESELS TO THE US! DR. "Z" SAID SO; DAVE SCHEMBRI SAID SO. WISHFUL THINKING WON'T MAKE IT HAPPEN. smarts are physically too small to carry the equipment and the US dealer infrastructure is too thin to support the only EPA approved diesel emissions system. Don't blame Dr. "Z"; don't blame Dave S.; blame the US gummint for establishing a one-size-fits-all emissions regulation. And unless there is some significant breakthrough in Europe, the Euro diesels may disappear when Euro5 and Euro6 come into effect there.

[subman631]

Originally Posted by vanslam

With all this talk about diesel cars being better values I started to think if that would be the case with the smart car. In comparing the prices of premium gas to diesel fuel in NJ. Premium goes for 3.20 now and diesel goes for 3.96 thats a 76 cents or 24% difference. So if I am getting 40 miles to a gallon in my smart I would have to get at least 49.6 miles to gallon in a diesel just to be equal.

Now the cheapest new diesel in NJ is the Mercedes (52k+) but the car purchase cost is not in the same ball park as the smart. So that leaves the Volkswagon Jetta should it ever get here. But the Jetta would cost twice as much as a smart car.

So I just don't see the diesel solution being the better option for a smart car owner. Now if there was a smart turbo diesel I wonder how the cost would equate/compare to the gas smart. Even if the cars cost the same with the difference in the price of gas we are back to the 49.6 miles to a gallon the diesel would have to achieve to be even with the gas smart.

Now if Dave777 drove the gas smart with his 52 sick mpg you would have to get better than 64.5 mpg in the diesel just to be even. Its a tough sell.

Smart DOES offer a diesel in other countries. What everyone is missing is the fact that a diesel engined car offers about a 30% improvement in mileage. Even if diesel is 30% more expensive than gas, the cost per mile is the same as gas; HOWEVER, IFFFFF all the cars were diesels, we would be using 30% less oil from the oil-rich Middle East. That in turn would force the cost of oil back down and we would all benefit. Unfortunately, there are a lot of forces at work to keep us 'oil dependent' for their benefit......

[RussBarnes]

Originally Posted by Old smart

THERE ARE NO PLANS TO BRING SMART DIESELS TO THE US! DR. "Z" SAID SO; DAVE SCHEMBRI SAID SO. WISHFUL THINKING WON'T MAKE IT HAPPEN. smarts are physically too small to carry the equipment and the US dealer infrastructure is too thin to support the only EPA approved diesel emissions system. Don't blame Dr. "Z"; don't blame Dave S.; blame the US gummint for establishing a one-size-fits-all emissions regulation. And unless there is some significant breakthrough in Europe, the Euro diesels may disappear when Euro5 and Euro6 come into effect there.

P.S. from a fairly knowledgeable source that I have in the smart network - they are testing diesel smarts in CA. Still waiting for results and it could be a no-go, but they are feeling the pressure.

[SloPok]

Originally Posted by sk8ndad

Personally, I think its a huge mistake to not offer an engine that is considered one of the greenest in the world and gets over 70 mpg.

The US oil companies will loose a lot of money. I'm sure they have people to lobby to keep cars & trucks that get great mpg OUT of the US market or to keep the diesel prices higher than gas so the two trucks end up paying the same amount per mile. The oil companies don't loose.

My 7300 lb Ford Powerstroke V8 gets 5 mpg (average around town) more than a Ford F150 with a V8 gas engine. I see 18 & 19 mpg. I'm told by several F150 owners that they get 13 & 14 mpg.

I don't know the weight of an F150 but I'm sure it's not has heavy as my F250. The front end alone weights 4300 lbs. almost 2 1/2 smarts!!

[SloPok]

Originally Posted by RussBarnes

P.S. from a fairly knowledgeable source that I have in the smart network - they are testing diesel smarts in CA. Still waiting for results and it could be a no-go, but they are feeling the pressure.

Didn't they have a diesel in one of the cars that drove from CA. to MI. and it got 69 mpg?

[Carnut]

Originally Posted by Old smart

THERE ARE NO PLANS TO BRING SMART DIESELS TO THE US! DR. "Z" SAID SO; DAVE SCHEMBRI SAID SO. WISHFUL THINKING WON'T MAKE IT HAPPEN. smarts are physically too small to carry the equipment and the US dealer infrastructure is too thin to support the only EPA approved diesel emissions system. Don't blame Dr. "Z"; don't blame Dave S.; blame the US gummint for establishing a one-size-fits-all emissions regulation. And unless there is some significant breakthrough in Europe, the Euro diesels may disappear when Euro5 and Euro6 come into effect there.

Fish, with your experience you should know that you should never say never.

[Old smart]

I’m sticking with never. Here’s the rub with emerging technology and “a breakthrough” - the dry technology. In no particular order, it is expensive; it is not long-lived; and it uses fuel for other than making the wheels go ‘round. The dry catalyst material is at the outset very exotic and costly. As the engine runs, the catalyst absorbs NOx (initially effectively), but the material soon becomes saturated and must be purged and regenerated. This done by injecting raw diesel oil into the cat, cutting into fuel mileage by about 5%. Over time and with repeated regenerations, the cat looses effectiveness and the whole converter must be replaced. I guess the “rubbiest” part is that EU regulations will require cat systems to last 100,000 km; they are having trouble getting much past 30,000 miles out of them, half the requirement. Then there is the issue of having sufficiently low-sulphur fuel available (sulphur will kill the dry catalyst material). In time EU5 or EU6 will bring D10 diesel fuel (10 parts-per-million), down from the present Euro D50. Our US D15 ULSD is probably OK as-is. If there is any real useable breakthrough it will be if smart can come up with a EU-compliant system (and that will physically fit***) before the world moves on to digging deep for other exotic propulsion systems for small vehicles, including perhaps M-B’s “DIESOTTO.” I’m sure that Dr. “Z” and Mssrs. “P” and “S” have been soberly looking at those things. We’ll have to see what VW does with its 2009 Jetta TDI. They are calling it “BlueTec,” but it won’t use the M-B/Audi/VW BlueTec/AdBlue system like the larger VWs; it will use VW’s own take on a dry system.

Due to the differences in changing US and EU regulations and the different times of their implementations, an ’09 Euro5 diesel may be US compliant in the year 2009 only, before the US closes our window again in 2010. If smart is testing a diesel in CA, it may be a proto-’09 so they can say “well, at least we tried.”

*** And, the dry cat must be in a relatively cool location in the exhaust system to work: the smart’s cat has to be very close to the engine exhaust ports.