'eco driving' Euro smart initiative

[tvengineer]

Thanks... I feel really stupid for not knowing that.

Originally Posted by gbryers

Miles are truly miles, though most anywhere but here in the good ol' US uses the metric Kilometer instead. But an imperial gallon is 4.5 litres (approx.), while the US (liquid) gallon is 3.8 litres (approx.) So it is important to understand which measurement is in use...

[John_H]

Originally Posted by chumly

I would like to see an electric Smart with the capacitor type of batteries like the ones developed by Zenn electric cars.Much more range, speed,power,and can be recharged in 6-10 minutes.

You're sounding like gibberish to my ears. Help me out, please. Capacitors - even super capacitors - have a significantly lower energy density, a fraction of lithium ion and other rechargeable technologies. Current batteries have charge rates that are severely limited by the self-heating of the chemistries involved which is why advances like the recent MIT nano-texturing of Lithium Ion batteries to allow the fast charging (while years away from commercial use) are so promising. There are some lithium ion batteries currently available that make significantly greater power available but still suffer some in energy density.

Could you point to what batteries, capacitors, or hybrid thereof you're talking about? A very quick glance at Zenn came back with no promising hits on battery technology. Rather than chase ghosts, I figured I'd just ask:

Where did you see this?

[chumly]

ZENNERGY 100% ELECTRIC DRIVETRAIN is the address I found with this info.Try it.

[John_H]

I haven't seen marketing for batteries evade range or energy densities anywhere near as completely as the links I've gone through so far in the zennergy site. I'll look some more but ultracapacitors are - so far - a fraction of the range compared to batteries. It's nice to take 3-6 minutes to recharge when your range is only 15 miles (my guess).

I'll look further.

I found a reference to range suggesting 400km?! Total fiction - it's like the claims a while back that a little CO2 pressurized gizmo could cool sodas down in an instant when they're opened. Despite high-brow wallstreet press, it was bogus.
____

The first patent cited in EEStor's Wikipedia entry suggests the 52kWh is the 336 lb module. If they're succeeding in their claims, the technology is huge. Not only for cars but for smoothing out the electrical grid from transient energy sources like wind or solar.

This still smells bad. Way too big to be legit. I would really love to see the technology be real.

[OCMike]

There must be something to this eestor story. An article yesterday states that Lockheed Martin is signing up with them to use their technology in defense applications.

Energy Storage is Key to Renewable Energy Success

[John_H]

I've had people claim headaches reading the technical details of some of my posts.

Trying to follow (generally) the discussions on Energy Density (another ED) is enough to make my head spin.

http://theeestory.com/topics/1994

If this capacitor (or atomic-level mechanical) technology works, the implications are huge. It's just wrong to have this much promise under one small team!

[eqwalker]

There has been huge speculation about EEStor and their ultra-capacitor technology since way back to 2002. Many believe it to be all lies while others believe they are on a breakthrough announcement. It has been heavily discussed over on the gm-volt.com website. EEStor has made several "promised" announcments dates only to let the date slip with no announcement. Zenn Motors, which is working in hand with EEStor is to be the first low speed city car to incorporate EEStor's EECU power unit when it is announced. It has been said that EEStor will have an announcement the end of 2009. With Lockheed getting into the act, it would sound like they are really onto something. If so, it could really change things for electric power. The EECU (I believe that is the acronym) is said to only way a fraction of a battery and be able to be charged in minutes versus hours and will have a life expectancy many times that of a Lithium Ion battery. Maybe the government is keeping them hush until they can fully study how the military could use it before the technology gets out. Who knows.

[Karl Roth]

Perhaps we could visit the Lourve and become old masters...
karl

[forestacademy]

Originally Posted by eqwalker

. The EECU (I believe that is the acronym) is said to only way a fraction of a battery and be able to be charged in minutes versus hours and will have a life expectancy many times that of a Lithium Ion battery..

In order to be charged in Minutes you would realy have to open the tap.
I know my houses wiring would melt if I put that kind of juce through it.

But im not the engineer on this forum. Any takers on the calculations of turning the flow of a 20A ciruit running for 8hrs to something that would put out the same storable power in say 10 minutes? John H, you up for this?

[John_H]

The big thing is the 52kWh capacity of the EESU. At 100% efficiency and 125V, the 416Ah (Amp-hours) would require 4160 continuous Amps in order to charge in 6 minutes, 2496 continuous Amps for 10 minutes.

20A for 8 hours at 100% efficiency and 125V is only 20kWh.
10 minutes would charge the same 20kWh with 960 Amps.

We're talking some pretty serious capacity!

2500A at household voltage is about 420 sustained horsepower converted directly to electricity.