Electric Smart being offered

[Red_fortwo]

Just a quick note for those looking longingly at solar panels for help in solving our energy crisis. yes, Germany is ahead of us in deployment. However, I was reading in a book about a year ago that the energy used to actually manufacture a solar panel was roughly about what you would get back out of the solar panel in a decade of sunny weather. I'm not sure what the life span of a solar panel is, but that seems to be a large up-front cost, borne out by the evidence of their relative expense to purchase. However, there is a company now that can create solar panels on flexible sheets in a process that I believe is cheaper and more energy efficient that traditional solar panel manufacturing, which might offset the invested energy and allow more places to install panels other than a flat roof area of a ... building, car, etc. Unfortunately, I don't have links for any of this, but I'll look around.

[Red_fortwo]

Okay, here's the link for the flexible solar panels. I still don't remember the book title.

PowerFilm Inc. - The worlds most lightweight and flexible solar panels

[Gilbert's]

Paying the 43k$ for a Smart Electric is just you pay for the gas for the life of the car.... forget it.

[Bill Marshall]

Originally Posted by theguywiththelongestname

well said...electricity won't be much greener, unless it's non-carbon generating, too.

so it seems our generating choices are: hydro, geothermal, wind, tidal, solar, and nuclear at this point...

Nothing is the solution all by itself, but electric cars are one piece of the puzzle.

[Old smart]

One advantage to electric vehicles is that the prime mover (the final drive electric motor) is about 90% efficient in the 50-100 HP range if running at a constant speed. An internal combustion gasoline engine is about 30% efficient.

The trick is, how efficient is the totality of upstream processes and production to finally put juice in the car batteries vs. to put gas in the tanks? The “natural” energy sources are sporadic and cyclical (with the exception of geothermal, maybe nuclear), so there will have to be some very considerable storage capacity (battery capacity) manufactured to smooth things out. A “power sink.”

[John_H]

I still suggest that batteries are a bulky, inefficient form of chemical storage. While hydrogen gas is difficult to store, production from electrolysis is simple whatever the original energy source that produces it. Other liquids such as methanol could be produced in systems similar to hydrogen generators and allows a much simpler storage. Converting the fuels directly back to electricity with fuel cells provides energy storage and utilization that batteries can't compete with on weight and volume.

I'm looking forward to the days when cars and trucks attain 80% or better absolute efficiency from fuel synthesis to horsepower on the road.

[Woody14619]

Originally Posted by BimmerDob

I just don't get why all of the sudden, electric cars are the answer, when clearly the economics at even $11 a gallon gas favor gas cars.

And I am skeptical that electric cars (without growth in solar, wind, & nuclear) are any greener globally.

Not true... There are electric cars for sale in many countries, and they're selling just fine. The limitations electric cars have right now mean they're not for everyone, just like a smart isn't for a family of 7. Electrics have limited ranges and towing capacity, and take time to charge. As technology changes those limits will fade and electric cars will become more prominent, and eventually predominant.

As for electric cars being less green, consider this: If I buy a gas car today, in 6 years that car will still be burning fossil fuel, no matter what growth occurs in renewable energy. If I buy an electric car today, in 6 years the worst case scenario is that it's using energy made with fossil fuels. The electric car has a good chance of being powered off of renewables in the next 6 years, the gas car does not.

[homeslice]

Originally Posted by cosmart

There is a very important event happening this weekend in Saudi Arabia. If the Saudis assert that they really are pumping at full speed, expect oil to hit $200 a barrel by this time next year.

Well, it's almost this same time the next year and guess what... oil is NOWHERE NEAR the cost of $200 barrel.

[forestacademy]

Originally Posted by homeslice

Well, it's almost this same time the next year and guess what... oil is NOWHERE NEAR the cost of $200 barrel.

at 6/20/08 it sure looked like that was the way we were going. Their in lies the problem with reviving a dead thread.

[homeslice]

Originally Posted by forestacademy

at 6/20/08 it sure looked like that was the way we were going. Their in lies the problem with reviving a dead thread.

At least we're doing a follow up a year later.

I'm glad we're not at $200/barrel. I would need a car that gets 80-90 MPG.