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post #1 of 16 (permalink) Old 04-28-2010, 07:15 PM Thread Starter
 
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My flame suit is on

I have been following the various turbo related threads for a while now and my head hurts.

I'm retired on a fixed income. I can't afford a $5k system that will give me bragging rights at the next smart car get-together. I can't afford a $2K system that costs me an additional $1k for installation locally.

I want a little extra OOMPH with my nice quiet stock Brabus exhaust system at a reasonable price.

Maybe a turbo isn't what I need. Seems like a tcm and an ecu tune with a torque link would solve my problem at a reasonable price point.

What say you?

Regards,

Dan
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post #2 of 16 (permalink) Old 04-28-2010, 07:21 PM
 
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...all of the above will give you a lot more...but if I read it right...I'll stay away from the hard mount...retired eh?...it will rattle the dentures right out of your mouth...

jetfuel.... pretty whites....
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post #3 of 16 (permalink) Old 04-28-2010, 07:22 PM
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Your money, your car. I was happy when I put a 2 1/2" stainless downpipe to tail pipe exhaust with an oversized CAT on my VW Beetle. Gave it a nice note in the exhaust and a little more go than stock, but then it was already turboed!
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post #4 of 16 (permalink) Old 04-28-2010, 07:37 PM
 
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Dan, I know I dissapointed alot of people like yourself when I decided not to produce my turbo kit. On the other hand reading your financial status I think you should look into Dynotronic's ECU upgrade. I think it will give you the boost your looking for and a whole lot cheaper and you can do it.
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post #5 of 16 (permalink) Old 04-28-2010, 07:51 PM
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I'm probably like most everyone else - never satisfied.

But I put on the forge hose, DTH exhaust, my own $12 turn knuckle strap that is NOT hard all the time since you can adjust when to have it hold, PLUS the TCM and ECM re-maps from Dyno. In a pretty controlled before and after testing my 0-60 time dropped 1.5 seconds from stock. The re-maps give me a stronger 3rd, 4th and 5th gear pull but I can't quantify except I still have my other (wife's) smart (all stock) and her car doesn't pull like mine on the turnpike.

this is NOT like having a turbo hit 2,000 and build boost and rip your head off. But it is timing the red light just right and beating the $60K SUV or pickup to the next light or coming down the on-ramp with a 70MPH 18 wheeler in the right lane and you know your smart will get ahead in plenty of time.

Cost was under a grand. That may be too much for some and I understand. If I see a kit that shows a turbo taking another 1.5 seconds off my 0-60 and it has quality engineering and parts with a reasonable price, I'll be there. why? because like I said - never satisfied.
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post #6 of 16 (permalink) Old 04-28-2010, 08:45 PM
 
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Originally Posted by fastturb View Post
I'm probably like most everyone else - never satisfied.

But I put on the forge hose, DTH exhaust, my own $12 turn knuckle strap that is NOT hard all the time since you can adjust when to have it hold, PLUS the TCM and ECM re-maps from Dyno. In a pretty controlled before and after testing my 0-60 time dropped 1.5 seconds from stock. The re-maps give me a stronger 3rd, 4th and 5th gear pull but I can't quantify except I still have my other (wife's) smart (all stock) and her car doesn't pull like mine on the turnpike.

this is NOT like having a turbo hit 2,000 and build boost and rip your head off. But it is timing the red light just right and beating the $60K SUV or pickup to the next light or coming down the on-ramp with a 70MPH 18 wheeler in the right lane and you know your smart will get ahead in plenty of time.

Cost was under a grand. That may be too much for some and I understand. If I see a kit that shows a turbo taking another 1.5 seconds off my 0-60 and it has quality engineering and parts with a reasonable price, I'll be there. why? because like I said - never satisfied.
Regarding the TCM re-map, do you notice the "25% quicker" shifts?
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post #7 of 16 (permalink) Old 04-29-2010, 12:44 AM
 
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The cheapest way to go fast is nitrous, but there aren't any "kits" for the Smart application... One of the issues, is the throtte-by-wire. If you're spraying nitrous/fuel and the ECU/TCU decides to shift gears on you -- it'll close the throttle and that would cause a backfire. With a cheap fogger application, the large internal volume of the Smart's intake manifold would cause a BIG backfire which would probably split the manifold. With individual port foggers or fuel injector nitrous adapters, you might get away with it as the intake manifold wouldn't be filled with an explosive mix of nitrous and fuel. You'd still get a backfire if the throttle closed on you while spraying nitrous, but it would probably be more like a "sneeze" and result in no damage. I know that Littodevil is working on the tuning for a nitrous setup using hardline fuel injector nitrous adapters that he's adapted/machined while others have already implemented nitrous setups on their Smarts. It is a bit inconvenient refilling a nitrous bottle, but that's a small price to pay if all you want to do is go fast.

If I were to do nitrous on the Smart, I'd use hardline fuel injector adapters. These aren't to be confused with the Nos brand fuel injector adapters as those are poly-line low pressure adapters. You essentially discharge the high pressure fuel and nitrous into separate distribution manifolds through metering jets which controls the ratio of fuel and nitrous. From the distribution manifolds, plastic lines deliver the fuel and nitrous to the adapters to spray directly at the intake ports in the head. These low pressure adapters are a headache... Because you've got lengths of poly-line which need to get filled with fuel through a tiny metering orifice back in the distribution manifold, you have to use a timer which has a timing offset in it to give the fuel lines time to fill before the nitrous solenoid opens. With hardline adapters, the fuel and nitrous jets are in each adapter. Any air in the fuel lines quickly gets evacuated through the metering jets... Anyway, people who have used the Nos low pressure fuel injector adapters often complain about burnt pistons because the fuel lines on the cylinders furthest away from the distribution manifold take too long to fill with fuel and those cylinders end up running too lean.

Anyway, the only person I know which has hardline fuel injector adapters machined for the Smart is Littodevil, but his setup is still in development. Still, a setup like this would probably meet your budget -- and it wouldn't change the exhaust loudness or alter the day-to-day driveability. If you add in a separate fuel system (methanol) instead of tapping into the gasoline fuel lines, you can inject more nitrous for more power. Methanol slows the burn rate of the nitrous/fuel mix -- so you don't have to program-in timing retard (probably by using a piggy-back ECU, which would go over your budget). Without timing retard, you'd probably be limited to 25HP or so. Using methanol, you could inject more nitrous/methanol to get maybe 35HP? It may not sound like much, but 35Hp is a 50% gain from stock!
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post #8 of 16 (permalink) Old 04-29-2010, 06:04 PM Thread Starter
 
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Leaning

Thanks for your inputs. Sounds like I may be contacting Dynotronics before long.

I had high hopes for your system Barney but in the end it would probably have been over my budget anyway.

When it seemed that Tim would be producing your system, I was again hopeful but that has come to naught. Using my stock exhaust is a priority.

Jack's stage 1 system seemed to offer some promise but installation costs screwed the pooch on that one.

Nitrous has never been a serious consideration for me. Too "Fast & Furious" for my taste.

My big hang-up with TCM & ECU tunes is what I consider a high cost for flashing a couple of computer modules and the lingering feeling that it's all "snake oil" in the end. Is there a real improvement or is it a "sprint booster" effect?

Regards,

Dan

Addendum: I'm really not dissatisfied with my car's performance in stock configuration. Maybe I'll just leave well enough alone.
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post #9 of 16 (permalink) Old 04-29-2010, 06:11 PM
 
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All I know about the ecu & tcu remap so far is Fastturb has done it and Dyno has a money back guarantee. So it must be something other than snake oil.:eek:
I think it is something like $650.00
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post #10 of 16 (permalink) Old 04-29-2010, 06:29 PM
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Yep it is $650. I am getting it done after I put on my turbo so he can custom tune my car to my turbo when I give him the datalog for my car.
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