450 vs 451

[SMARTCAR95]

which one is better far as ride, comfort, performance, and ecnomy?

[jwight]

Wow, hope this doesn't go the way of the smart vs. Yaris thread. Take a look here Original smart fortwo - Smart Car of America Forums for some 450 info. Not sure we can say one is "better" - lot of subjective opinions out there for sure.

[ASmartMan]

Howdy

Where I own a 450 and my friend (at work) owns a 451 and we ride in each others cars, I may be able to shed some light.

The 451 rides better than the 450, the 451 only has 5 gears and shifts smoother than the 450's 6 speed transmission. Styling is a personal preference (interior) both have + and -, the 450 has a 700 cc turbo charged motor made by MB as compared to the Japanese 1,000 cc motor with out a turbo.

Reliability, well the Gen 2 (450) has been in service since 2003 and there are a lot of forums out there where info can be found, but in my research 70-100K miles is the best you can expect before a motor rebuild is needed, the Gen 3 (451) we'll have to wait and see.

The 451 is made out of 90% new parts, unproven (as of yet) but if they took what they learned from the 450 and incorporated it in to the 451 then you can expect longer life.

At this stage, I feel my 450 is cuter than the 451 (but of course you'd expect me to say that), the 1 thing though that isn't up for debate is the 450 gets better gas mileage than the 451. in July when I was paying $4.35 a gallon, I still had a smile on my face (as compared to the others filling their tank).

Here in the US, stay with the 451, the 450 is a novelty and you need nerves of steel to make the purchase because of the price and lack of support (from MB), but if you want to be a member of the 1026 club (only 1026 Smart cars converted for US use), and have some extra cash, then jump in

Well my thoughts anyways

ASM

[2005smartcdi]

[quote=ASmartMan;162973]

"Styling is a personal preference (interior) both have + and -, the 450 has a 700 cc turbo charged motor made by MB as compared to the Japanese 1,000 cc motor with out a turbo."

ASmartMan, one correction, the turbo diesel 450 (mine's a 2005 Canadian model) is a Mercedes 800cc (799 cc, 3 cylinder) common rail diesel injection (CDI). The 2008 1.0 litre (US and Cdn model) is a Mitsubishi premium (91 octane) gas engine. Older original European versions of the 450 were a combination of gasoline and diesel variants with engines as small as 700 cc (699cc to be exact).

2005smartcdi ...

[ASmartMan]

You are correct

Yet that car is NOT legal in the USA, I've tried to get (Via ALL legal channels) the Ca CDI Smart into the USA.

Regardless, congrats on getting one registered in the US (I was told it was impossible)

ASM

[quote=2005smartcdi;162987]

Originally Posted by ASmartMan

"Styling is a personal preference (interior) both have + and -, the 450 has a 700 cc turbo charged motor made by MB as compared to the Japanese 1,000 cc motor with out a turbo."

ASmartMan, one correction, the turbo diesel 450 (mine's a 2005 Canadian model) is a Mercedes 800cc (799 cc, 3 cylinder) common rail diesel injection (CDI). The 2008 1.0 litre (US and Cdn model) is a Mitsubishi premium (91 octane) gas engine. Older original European versions of the 450 were a combination of gasoline and diesel variants with engines as small as 700 cc (699cc to be exact).

2005smartcdi ...

[belkin666]

Can't say anything about the 451 - but can about my experience w/ 450. Been driving a GRAY MARKET 2005 passion fortwo coupe 450 in L.A. for almost two years. been having great fun. it's cuter, more loveable, has a daimler-benz engine w/ six speed trans instead of that mitsubishi junk, and it gets better gas milage - avg. for both hwy/city around 42mpg. It's the car Americans thought they were going to get. I don't think it was a risk - I've had no problems -

insurance: no problems
title and registration: no problems
loan: was no problem
parts and accessories: no problems
service: no problems - service from a terrific independent Mercedes garage.
no "Dealers": OMG!, there are smart dealers in the US now? Who cares? Who wants to be held hostage and gouged by a dealer? I had my car for a year before smart dealers came to the US and I had no problems w/ parts/service.

[Mike T]

The 599 and 698 cc 450 smart gas engines were not too robust, many grenading at 60,000-90,000 miles. The 799 cc 450 cdi engines were very reliable, with engine failures being very rare. The highest mileage of a 450 cdi I know of was reported this week on smart-forum.de, at 620,000 km (close to 400,000 miles).

The cars are quite different. I will hang onto my 450 cdi cabrio but I could be tempted to buy a 451 BRABUS if it had the 98 HP engine in it.

I am pretty sure the Mitsu engine will be better than the M-B 599/698 cc gasser was, long-term.

[rgaus]

ASM- Might be close to the 1075 as correct number, but we usually quote the quantity of 1026 Euro version (04/05/06) smarts. The number of 2002 and 2003 smarts that preceded those 1026 MAY have totalled about 50. That means your 1075 may be accurate.

Regarding service locations, if anyone has a 450 model and has problems finding a dealer, let us know and we'll give you some guidance on what has worked well in other cities.

Parts are available through a number of sources for the 450's.

Ron Gaus, aSmartCar.com. St. Louis

[Old smart]

Originally Posted by belkin666

... has a daimler-benz engine w/ six speed trans instead of that mitsubishi junk, ...

The (sic) daimler-benz M160 and OM660 engines are made by SUPREX, with “Engineered by Mercedes-Benz” on the valve cover. A bit like the Ilmor/Sauber-built V10 – at first M-B tepidly had “Concept by Mercedes-Benz” placed on its valve covers, which changed to “Powered by Mercedes-Benz” after the engine proved successful. SUPREX’s claim to fame is as a manufacturer of aircraft superchargers.

It is far too early to characterize the Mitsu engine as “junk.” It is the second iteration of the 3B2x MIVEC engine that has been in use since 2005 (both normally aspirated and turbo’d) and successful enough to continue to a third variant 660cc turbo in the new Mitsu “i-Car.” Time will tell.

[andrewd]

Originally Posted by belkin666

has a daimler-benz engine w/ six speed trans instead of that mitsubishi junk

i love how people think that thats a good thing LOL

daimler has an interest in mitsubishi and own fuso, it's not the 1st time that technology has been shared, and i dont know about the garbage mitsus you have in america but the JDM models have awesome tech and are great cars rarley seen outside of Japan

now that awesome old smart motor is a hunk of junk thats not good for more than 100k and the awesome 3x2 speed trans

time will only tell about the reliability of the new car, but i can assure you it will long outlast the old model..

the 450 is smaller and more efficient, i'll give it that... and thats all i'll give it

i have driven one briefly and i dont rate it against my 451 turbo at all, and as it is because of it i used to rubbish the smart up untill i saw then drove the 451