Emotions sometimes run high in defending one's choice of cars. It would seem that the bottom line should be that each of us allow the respect of each buyer's choice instead of saying one is better or worse than the other. Like religion and politics, when you try to start telling people they are wrong and you are right, it doesn't take long before things go south. Let's all be happy we're driving one of these little guys, 450 or 451, and enjoy this special moment in history together. Talk of past lawsuits against individuals on the one side, or junk engine claims on the other, get in the way of the true enjoyment that all smart drivers experience. There should be room for positive conversations around all phases of these cars. Just my thoughts. We are all pioneers together.
Since all we had here were the diesels..............
They are running around in all conditions (if you keep them plugged in) and seem to be fairly reliable.
Of the three I know personally all have had numerous problems with the engines and fit/finish.
None have been major failures and all three of these cars are over 100 000km.
You're right Ron, point taken. I should not have used the word junk. It's a chatty word and not a constructive or usefully descriptive word. It's just my opinion. Everyone has right to opinion even when wrong. That's why they sell banana cream pie - somebody buys it.
One can find positive and negative reviews/opinions for the same car.
I own a smart and think it's a great car - I have friends who think it's junk and a deathtrap. Also, since the i-car was mentioned, here's a review giving it one star out of five. Mitsubishi i Hatchback Car Review - What Car? Actually, not a bad looking car. I'm sure one could find positive reviews too.
Perhaps I should have characterized it as a cheaper substitute or replacement. In my opinion, economics and not technology was the reason for the change. Mitsubishi and Smart sign agreement on engine supply
I do wonder how many typical new owners of 08 smarts knew, when they bought the car, that they were getting a mitsubishi engine?
But these are just my opinions and anyway one can't believe what one reads on the Internet.
I hope every car works well and runs long and wish everyone happy motoring.
Hey now, be careful not to badmouth banana cream pie. Let me tell you something: In a couple of weeks, we're driving our Smart some 7 hours from Lake Chapala to Mazatlan, on the Pacific coast to our northwest. Sometime, while vacationing there and enjoying the beach, we will want some banana cream pie. Now, that isn't normal Mexican fare but all is not lost. East of Mazatlan some 40 minutes, high in the Sierras, is a tiny village, once a gold mining town and now almost deserted. Many years ago, an American ran away from home and bought a gold mine under an old hotel. Of course, he had his mother's recipe for banana cream pie and used it as an unique attraction to his struggling enterprise. It was difficult, his wife left him and moved across town some several yards and opened a bar. Yes, she stole the family recipe too. Both are long gone but the old hotel and restaurant survives, still offering banana cream pie. The bar is also open and has its own version; slightly different these days. So, you see; here in the colorful, sunny mountains of Mexico; either near Guadalajara or Mazatlan, we can and will have our banana cream pie; shades of 1950 at my high school's nearby burger joint.......long before franchises.
Great story, RVGRINGO! Wonder if anyone ever visited that guy's hotel, ate the pie and said (about the pie)... you're sitting on a real gold mine here!
And thanks, belkin666, for your comments. Didn't mean to stifle your opinion.
Get a room you two! I preferred it when you were at each other's throats; but that is just me. LOL Seriously, banana cream pie et al aside; the 451 is an overall improvement over the 450 in ride and comfort and yes Virginia, I have driven both models and choose the 450 mainly because I have the option of dino diesel or bio-diesel. That reason alone sold me on the 450. My other cars when my family allows me to drive them are a 2006 BMW 325Ci and a 2004 Jeep Wrangler/TJ Rubicon. My 450 was the closest I could come to thumbing my nose at the North American auto manufacturers and fighting terrorism at the same time as I rationalized it. The only other plus as I see it with the 451 in the U.S. is you do not have to go to a Mercedes dealership for servicing. I wish that were the case here in Canada as a good M-B smart dealership is very hard to find but not impossible to find. Group hug.
figured I'd ask some folks w/ a little more exposure to the 450, and, the brit's are always entertaining. I figure, maybe it's a draw. visit our British smartie brethren,
see link: 450 vs 451 - smartmaniacs
Can't say anything about the 451 - but can about my experience w/ 450. Been driving a GRAY MARKET 2005 passion fortwo coupe 450 in L.A. for almost two years. been having great fun. it's cuter, more loveable, has a daimler-benz engine w/ six speed trans instead of that mitsubishi junk, and it gets better gas milage - avg. for both hwy/city around 42mpg. It's the car Americans thought they were going to get. I don't think it was a risk - I've had no problems.
Mitsubishi junk???
I've owned 2 cars with Mitsubishi engines & both went for about 200,000 miles.
You're right Ron, point taken. I should not have used the word junk. It's a chatty word and not a constructive or usefully descriptive word. It's just my opinion. Everyone has right to opinion even when wrong. That's why they sell banana cream pie - somebody buys it.
One can find positive and negative reviews/opinions for the same car.
I own a smart and think it's a great car - I have friends who think it's junk and a deathtrap. Also, since the i-car was mentioned, here's a review giving it one star out of five. Mitsubishi i Hatchback Car Review - What Car? Actually, not a bad looking car. I'm sure one could find positive reviews too.
Perhaps I should have characterized it as a cheaper substitute or replacement. In my opinion, economics and not technology was the reason for the change. Mitsubishi and Smart sign agreement on engine supply
I do wonder how many typical new owners of 08 smarts knew, when they bought the car, that they were getting a mitsubishi engine?
But these are just my opinions and anyway one can't believe what one reads on the Internet.
I hope every car works well and runs long and wish everyone happy motoring.
I'd love to know what your opinion is based on, regarding the Mitsubishi engine.
When you refer to a "cheaper substitute" & "economics not technology was the reason for replacement", I hear you implying that it's an inferior engine. Read your own link. They refer top "economies of scale" - meaning that cost will be lowered due to volume of production, not cheapening of the engine. I thought that lowering cost was a good thing for the consumer, but that's just me.
Last edited by Bill Marshall; 02-03-2009 at 07:06 AM.
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Seriously, banana cream pie et al aside; the 451 is an overall improvement over the 450 in ride and comfort and yes Virginia, I have driven both models and choose the 450 mainly because I have the option of dino diesel or bio-diesel. That reason alone sold me on the 450. My other cars when my family allows me to drive them are a 2006 BMW 325Ci and a 2004 Jeep Wrangler/TJ Rubicon. My 450 was the closest I could come to thumbing my nose at the North American auto manufacturers and fighting terrorism at the same time as I rationalized it. The only other plus as I see it with the 451 in the U.S. is you do not have to go to a Mercedes dealership for servicing. I wish that were the case here in Canada as a good M-B smart dealership is very hard to find but not impossible to find. Group hug.
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