The W450s don't have (sic) "daimler-benz" engines. They are Suprex engines with "Engineered by Mercedes-Benz" on the valve cover.
Not the first time that M-B has applied their name to engines that they did not build themselves. Ilmor (UK) engines variously had "Powered by Mercedes-Benz" or "Concept by Mercedes-Benz" on the valve covers.
I'm surprised that the W451's Mitsu 3B21 doesn't have "Specified by Mercedes-Benz" or the like on it.
I think I'd rather have a Mitsu 3B21 (or 3B20T) than a Suprex.
Really!...... Well mdfortwoguy perhaps you can enlighten me. Where have I gone wrong?
Well, as about 10 others have enlightned you already, the 3b2x engine has a strong track record so far in terms of durability and longevity. The suprex engines used in the 450 are hard pressed to make it to 100K miles without needing major work.
The 6 speed transmission is no gem either - the clutch actuators are not as robust as the actuators in our 5 speed, and it shifts slower than the 5 speed. This is all based off of fact and verifiable (hop on over to clubsmartcar.com sometime).
Anyone who did a little bit of research before buying their 451 knew who manufactured the engine... it's not like this is some great secret.
It takes a lot of nerve to spout off about the product that 99% of the people on this board own or are thinking about purchasing, especially when you are basing it on opinion without facts. The 450 is a nice car, but quite frankly other than the fact it can be nose-parked easier, it has rear 1/4 windows, and it gets slightly better fuel economy - it has no real advantages over a 451...
Last edited by mdfortwoguy; 02-17-2009 at 09:04 AM.
the mitsubishi can't really have a track record yet - it was only introduced in '06. Any one out there have 100,000 miles on their mitsubishi yet? I guess smart was so confident in the new engine - that's why they chopped off two years from the manufacturer's warranty. anecdotal internet postings are notoriously unreliable - take for example the posting above by old smart, our friendly moderator, supposedly very knowledgeable, and a mitsubishi fan. Yet he couldn't be more wrong - the 450 engines were not made by a company named suprex. They were designed, engineered, and manufactured by Mercedes-Benz. They were produced at the Mercedes-Benz plant in Berlin.
the mitsubishi can't really have a track record yet - it was only introduced in '06. Any one out there have 100,000 miles on their mitsubishi yet? I guess smart was so confident in the new engine - that's why they chopped off two years from the manufacturer's warranty. anecdotal internet postings are notoriously unreliable - take for example the posting above by old smart, our friendly moderator, supposedly very knowledgeable, and a mitsubishi fan. Yet he couldn't be more wrong - the 450 engines were not made by a company named suprex. They were designed, engineered, and manufactured by Mercedes-Benz. They were produced at the Mercedes-Benz plant in Berlin.
Dangit!.....Where is a pocorn smilie when you need it?
Yet he couldn't be more wrong - the 450 engines were not made by a company named suprex. They were designed, engineered, and manufactured by Mercedes-Benz. They were produced at the Mercedes-Benz plant in Berlin.
Link?
From what I've read, the engines were designed by Suprex & modified by Mercedes engineers. I don't know where they were built or by whom although I don't think that matters much. There were reportedly reliability issues with them at one time.
I disagree with belkin's assertions of the mitsu engine being junk; I've driven a Mitsubishi Expo LRV over 100,000 miles, and that car has been the most reliable vehicle I've ever had. I've had absolutely no problems ever with that engine, and I see no reason to think the smart's mitsu engine will be any less reliable.
Having said that, I can see why there's confusion about the Mercedes vs. suprex engine issue. Here's a brochure published by the Southeast Smart Centre (UK) in Spring 2004; as you can see on pages 6-8, they clearly refer to Mercedes as the engine manufacturer and suprex as the turbo manufacturer. Presumably, that smart centre got its info directly from smart headquarters:
Quote:
Powered by rear mounted Mercedes manufactured 599cc 61bhp suprex turbo charged 3
cylinder in-line petrol engine complete with catalytic converter
This next one is the 1999 Daimler-Chrysler Annual Report. At the top of page 37, the reference to Suprex suggests [a little less clearly] that Suprex is the turbo manufacturer:
Quote:
The smart City convertible is equipped with the same SUPREX turbo engine as the smart City coupe, and
reaches an electronically limited top speed of 135 kph.
Micro Compact Car (MCC) eventually became smart GmbH. Interestingly enough, considering that Suprex apparently manufacturers aircraft superchargers, a Garrett GT12 turbocharger is used.
Note that the 600cc turbo engines are EU type-approved for use by a German light aircraft manufacturer as "Suprex," not "Mercedes-Benz."
I, personally, don't have any dogs in this fight! I hope that the current Mitsu engine lasts a long, long time! However, having read a number of books on the smart before mine arrived, here is an excerpt from "The Smart Story" by Paul Guiness:
"One common misconception about the city-coupe - now known, of course, as the fortwo - was that it was a German car. You can forgive the assumption, bearing in mind the Mercedes parentage. In reality though, it is only the smart's engine, transmission and drivetrains that are built in Germany, at a huge hi-tech factory in Berlin. Production there started in 1997, and the whole drivetrain package is produced on site before being despatched and shipped to smart's French plant in Hambach."
This is on page 21, which shows a picture of the engines being built on the assembly line in Germany, along with this caption:
"The city-coupe - now called fortwo - might be built in France, but it's three-cylinder engine comes from Germany, engineered by Mercedes-Benz."
So....... in reading this book, it makes it very clear who made the engine for the smart fortwo and where is was manufactured. As far as the various opinions on the Mitsubishi engine, I've read a lot of good reports & reviews on other Mitsu engines, so I'm hoping that the dependability & longevity hold true for OUR engines as well!
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