70 MPH in 80 MPH Zone ???

[NukleoN]

Ok yeah, I knew they had a 'reasonable and prudent' speed law on some highways but didn't realize they had changed it back to a posted limit. I'll fix that in future references to Montana. Mainly, the 65mph seems to have little relevance to the 85th percentile on freeways, which I think needs to be adjusted. Drivers who see a higher limit won't feel so self-righteous when they're blocking the fast lanes.

Originally Posted by The Rigger

Good post, except that Montana doesn't have the "reasonable and prudent" daytime speed "limit" on their Interstate freeways any more, and hasn't had it since May 28, 1999...

On March 10, 1996, a Montana patrolman issued a speeding ticket to a driver traveling at 90 mph on a stretch of SR200. The 50-yr-old driver was operating a 1996 Camaro with fewer than 10,000 miles on the odometer. The driver appealed the citation, but although the officer gave no opinion as to what would have been a "reasonable speed," he was convicted of speeding. The driver then appealed all the way up to the Montana Supreme Court. The Court reversed the conviction in case No. 97-486 on December 23, 1998; it held that a law requiring drivers to drive at a non-numerical "reasonable and proper" speed "is so vague that it violates the Due Process Clause ... of the Montana Constitution". The net result of that reversal was the Montana Legislature instituting their current 75mph daytime speed limit on all rural roadways.

[forestacademy]

Hmm

Plenty of places around here on the Interstates where under 65 is the norm.

Im talking about what folks are driving. No rush, saves gas, and makes us all feel like we are not pushing the limits of the roads. Lots or room to breath and relax.

[Godfather]

Baloney......... no way have you been stopped 6 or more times, ticketed, and beat all 6. Not even in California. I wrote in excess of 100 enforcement tickets a month, and only lost 2....... total. Neither were speed tickets. I faced lawyers for the accused, lawyers for themselves, and self appointed experts who openly challenged my professionalism and qualifications in open court, and ALL lost. Methinks you are becoming a legend in your own mind. BTW, my two favorite excuses..... "Why aren't you out catching real criminals" and " I was just keeping up with traffic". How to GUARANTEE a ticket? "I'll have your job."

[orngandblack]

ok nukleon, you need to visit NJ. The only kinds of speeding tickets you will get here are tickets that tell you how many mph's above the speed limit you were going. The more mph's the bigger the fine and points. Points not only on your DL but also from your insurance co which will result in higher rates.

[NukleoN]

Originally Posted by Godfather

Baloney......... no way have you been stopped 6 or more times, ticketed, and beat all 6. Not even in California. I wrote in excess of 100 enforcement tickets a month, and only lost 2....... total. Neither were speed tickets. I faced lawyers for the accused, lawyers for themselves, and self appointed experts who openly challenged my professionalism and qualifications in open court, and ALL lost. Methinks you are becoming a legend in your own mind. BTW, my two favorite excuses..... "Why aren't you out catching real criminals" and " I was just keeping up with traffic". How to GUARANTEE a ticket? "I'll have your job."

LOL! You're flat-out accusing me of lying? That's amusing. I've never been called a liar before regarding this issue, but I suppose it's hard for an ex-LEO to believe.

Yes, I beat 6 and lost 1 all in California over several years (that's my lifetime record). You can probably tell I know a thing or two about the legal system by my posts, right? After all, you're not rebutting the content of my legal knowledge, you've just dismissed my experiences as lies. The amount of information is staggering for those who want to research it, and I have researched it exhaustively and put it into practice.

If you're a cop then you know what I am saying is true about how speed laws work (but I don't assume cops know the intricacies of how speed limits get set). By the way 7 tickets doesn't mean 7 stops..I've gotten a few warnings too, and those are appreciated.

I can see you don't meet many civilians who fight tickets, right? Only about 10% of civilians fight tickets, the rest just dutifully pay (or don't pay) them. Out of those who fight tickets, not all of those are gonna be skilled ticket-fighters...they might be copy/pasting and may not understand the nuances as to how to build an affirmative case and expose weaknesses in the witness's (the cop's) testimony.

I know this stuff by doing it and actually working within my civil-rights to get due-process on traffic citations. Like I said, this is not directed against cops so much as the system you work in.

I used to pay all my tickets too until I got caught in a really obvious speed-trap run by rookies who were gloating about it....and since then I've fought every ticket and I have no reason or anything to gain by lying about my record. I am not a lawyer and do not make a dime sharing my experiences and knowledge of the law that anyone can access.

Now as a cop it's good that you're skeptical, but simply accusing me of lying isn't the most rational way to approach this, and does not make for a compelling argument. In fact I bet there are plenty civilian non-lawyers who have won more than me for sure simply due to age or better knowledge of the law, etc.

The thing is, it's much more time-efficient to simply write more tickets than to have to defend against a legal-savvy-civilian who has a huge vested interest in beating a ticket, which is just one of many for you. This is probably why a lot of cops don't bother with the small stuff, but might show up out of spite or for a more serious infraction, or if their C.O. makes them. ;)

As an ex-law-enforcement officer, you may know how often those speed-surveys are jacked up or made artificially low (not that you could admit that) if you've ever used them as evidence defending your tickets. I've seen them first-hand and used them to beat my tickets several times. It is really interesting that in my small sample pool of tickets that I have found illegal speed-surveys..but not surprising.

The E&T surveys are often wrong or artificially low due to pressure from homeowners, politicans or just as a way to drum up revenue. Remember, the very first E&T survey I ever looked at in NorCal was illegally citing non-existent construction, and everyone getting stopped on that road for 22350's was essentially being robbed. What are the odds of the very first survey I checked being illegal? My thinking is that this happens a lot. Traffic engineers get pressure from homeowners and politicians to artificially lower speed limits...and I think sometimes they cave in to that pressure. LEO's can 'show more work' with lower limits, homeowners think they're safer and the city happens to benefit with increased revenue.

I respect your role as an officer and the risks you face and the serious work you might be doing, but if an officer wants to hand me a B.S. 22350 which affects my insurance rates for 3 years and costs a good chunk of change, I am not going to make things easy. We as free-Americans have the right to due-process, even for something so minor.

Also, I will take your disbelief as a compliment, because I'm not your average civilian. ;)

[NukleoN]

Originally Posted by orngandblack

ok nukleon, you need to visit NJ. The only kinds of speeding tickets you will get here are tickets that tell you how many mph's above the speed limit you were going. The more mph's the bigger the fine and points. Points not only on your DL but also from your insurance co which will result in higher rates.

Well in CA it's similar. You pay more the more over the limit you are, though I don't know the exact formula.

Believe me I know all about points, that's why I fight tickets. You can get points expunged if you make a deal with the judge, and I have also gotten extra 'traffic schools' just by asking for it (judges can give them out as much as they want). Usually if you don't have a good case you can bargain for a reduced fine and get the point waived, but I never did that. I just outright fought all mine to get a Not Guilty win.

Let's be honest, the city just wants your money once you're in the system. This is why you get a 'free pass' every 18 months with a little farce called 'traffic school', and this is why the courts like to get in your way when you're trying to fight a ticket or get engineering survey copies (varies by person and locale), but they're not gonna make it easy unless they know that YOU know what your rights are and that you can't be intimidated out of them.

Even before court, the bailiff will often ask, 'Are you SURE you don't want traffic school? Last chance'. This may seem like helpful information, but it's also intended to intimidate, because they know people are nervous and maybe scared waiting for their cases to be heard. No, it's really not your last chance, but a scared populace is a paying populace.

You really have to dig to learn how to get an E&T survey on a road you were stopped on. I mean, most people would be intimidated asking a bailiff for an E&T survey with a court in session...it's kinda scary but once you know your rights, it's just business. This is merely my experience and opinion, as there might be some city-employees who appreciate that an individual is exercising his rights and admire it and possibly do it themselves (assuming they don't have 'ticket immunity').

I think the intimidation factor is something the city employees like though...means they keep more money from more people. Imagine if *everyone* fought traffic tickets and the court costs which would ensue (not to mention lost revenue). What would probably happen is cops would simply write fewer tickets for more serious infractions, and there wouldn't be cop 'no-shows'. Right now, it's sort of the shotgun approach. Write a ton of tickets to 'show work' to your constituents (boss, mayor, homeowners, voters) and most will stick.

Like I said, my ticket-fighting record is lifetime...I don't drive as fast in my smart, and on my motorcycles I am pretty calm too...old age has mellowed me I guess.

Note: I am not a lawyer and don't profess to be one, nor do I intend this as legal advice but merely information I've gathered along with some editorial commentary.

[padi176715]

In reference to those above, if you just drive the speed limit then all becomes mute. As for speed limits, the highest I have seen and driven in with the Smart is 85 along I-10 in western Texas

[Wdhitch]

8-27-09



Has to be some kind of record.....


ZOMBIE THREAD IS ALIVE!!!!!

[SmartDigger]

Run for your lives

[burtandnancy]

Someone mentioned running red lights is equally as wrong as speeding. Probably so. But since owning my smart, I've been forced to run a few left turn/red arrows that I have learned my smart won't trigger. Most do work for me, but a few around town, after sitting thru a few cycles, I just have to look both ways and go for it.
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