Diesel Smart For Two; the better car

[Cool ForTwo]

Hammer the diesel that will save resources beyond belief and then say you want to go faster with a turbo? Use more fuel then lose your life by hot rodding you Smart.
Iv had both types and I'll tell you that if those consumer reports guys are complaining that its noisy then maybe they ought let there momas dress them so they can come out for a drive and see for real! Noisy my butt.
Slow? thats funny.. I suppose if you want a low geared muscle car that will run the quarter mile in ten seconds it is. Theyre geared high to utilze the torque, have good top speed and sip fuel. Jeez America. anyone get the idea that we need to conserve resourses?
Maybe you should also read up on How the EPA has been hammering the trucking industry over the years. Funny thing is that all the engine builders went to the EPA and asked how they could build cleaner engines. Unlike the car guys theyve been working in partnership. No one cares more about building cleaner engines than Cat, Cummins, Navistar and Detroit D.
Maybe if Smart took a page from that book they would give us the good stuff. Also the U.S. engines don't need Urea because they do burn so clean. If we take a defeatist mentality then we'll always lose.

[SmartAzz]

Originally Posted by Cool ForTwo

Maybe you should also read up on How the EPA has been hammering the trucking industry over the years. Funny thing is that all the engine builders went to the EPA and asked how they could build cleaner engines. Unlike the car guys theyve been working in partnership. No one cares more about building cleaner engines than Cat, Cummins, Navistar and Detroit D.
Maybe if Smart took a page from that book they would give us the good stuff. Also the U.S. engines don't need Urea because they do burn so clean. If we take a defeatist mentality then we'll always lose.

It doesn't seem that we even know all the repercussions from diesel though:

"While some types of outdoor air pollution are decreasing, ozone and fine particle pollution from diesel engine exhaust are ongoing or increasing problems, both in the US and in other countries and regions where asthma is on the rise. Kids who engage frequently sports activity in areas of high ozone have an increased risk of asthma. Several lines of evidence suggest that diesel exhaust may cause asthma. Diesel exhaust, for example, appears to change some immune cells to a type that is linked to the development of asthma. And kids growing up along streets with heavy truck traffic are more likely to have asthma-related respiratory symptoms."

Considering the uber fine particulates and need for more info on diesel's effect on people I'd rather they erred on the side of safety and work to improve/reduce the commercial use of it and all the additional pollution from idling trucks, boats and such.

Here is the place I happened to find that excerpt and a couple more my quick Google search turned up:

http://www.protectingourhealth.org/n...asthmaknow.htm

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...1205190853.htm

http://www.lungchicago.org/site/epage/31325_487.htm

[Old smart]

One area where the US is presently doing better than the rest of the world with diesel pollution control is with sulphur emissions, not by exhaust treatment, but by eliminating it in the fuel. Since SEP 2006, the EPA has required US refiners to produce at least 80% Ultra-Low Sulphur Diesel (ULSD) for road use, and for retailers and fleet suppliers to switch to it. ULSD is also known as "D15," meaning not more that 15 parts per million sulphur compounds. Previously US LSD road diesel was "D200," and non-road HSD diesel as much as "D2000." Since the mid-'90s, the EU has required "D50" (aka "city diesel") and still does. Obviously D50 has over three times the sulphur PPM as D15. But with more stringent regulations (Euro-5 and -6), the EU will go to "D10."

US D15 has sufficiently low sulphur that it can now be used with a catalytic converter to also deal with carbon monoxide and other noxious gasses, same as a gas engine. New trucks from M.Y. 2007 onward are required be able to burn ULSD, and it is in fact illegal to burn non-ULSD in them.

[2009Aveo5]

Originally Posted by Cool ForTwo

Hammer the diesel that will save resources beyond belief and then say you want to go faster with a turbo? Use more fuel then lose your life by hot rodding you Smart.
Iv had both types and I'll tell you that if those consumer reports guys are complaining that its noisy then maybe they ought let there momas dress them so they can come out for a drive and see for real! Noisy my butt.
Slow? thats funny.. I suppose if you want a low geared muscle car that will run the quarter mile in ten seconds it is. Theyre geared high to utilze the torque, have good top speed and sip fuel. Jeez America. anyone get the idea that we need to conserve resourses?
Maybe you should also read up on How the EPA has been hammering the trucking industry over the years. Funny thing is that all the engine builders went to the EPA and asked how they could build cleaner engines. Unlike the car guys theyve been working in partnership. No one cares more about building cleaner engines than Cat, Cummins, Navistar and Detroit D.
Maybe if Smart took a page from that book they would give us the good stuff. Also the U.S. engines don't need Urea because they do burn so clean. If we take a defeatist mentality then we'll always lose.

I don't think we disagree at all. I just know that if the car has enough power to not have a big truck swallow me whole...now I live in the NYC burbs and very few care about your energy conservation efforts in the real world of traffic, so pick up is important to get out of the way of aggressive traffic. This is an urban car after all...or at least that's the appeal for it...the parking factor. So if I am driving it on city streets then I can't imagine it would matter if it were slow, but how does it do on the interstate/highway or with hills while accelerating? I've driven vehicles where they slow down when you want them to speed up and it's not a comforting feeling. So I would be for the diesel, the 2006 450 I read claims to get 53/61 under Canadian guidelines but only 40 horsepower and a tad bit more torque...it's bothersome. I'd have to really test drive one on the big roads to know I'm driving something I could live with, but ultimately I'd like some fun factor in speed if I wanted it....it's too bad we can't have both. A muscle car generally is a car that gets 0-60 in under 5 seconds. I can't imagine a Smart as a muscle car though even if it got 0-60 in 3 seconds would be considered a muscle car. Humorous, maybe, to watch it beat the muscle cars but nonetheless it'll never be considered muscle even with a turbo. Personally, I think the car is a third lighter than these Fits/Yaris/Aveo/etc...and while their horsepower may not be that much more 107 to 118hp, the acceleration is far better in terms of when you need it or want it. I don't know that taking this option away for the sake of conservation is smart. Life is worth more than a tank of gas. Like I've said before...if they can make the thing peppy enough to still be fun...I'm not looking for 0-60 in 6 seconds...but there's no excuse why they can't achieve 0-60 in under 10 seconds without compromising fuel consumption and I'll take it a step further to state that the majority of Smart drivers will likely drive it at MPG closer to the city rating than the highway rating of consumption which is likely directly correlated to lack of sufficient acceleration more so than any other factor. Make the acceleration more normal like every other efficient car and it shouldn't cost more in gas...I just think Smart doesn't put much money into research and development if you ask me...I mean the 2/24k warranty speaks volumes about their ability to make sound decisions. I like the Smart for its size, I'm not crazy about the cars engine/transmission/service & parts department/warranty...to me these are major flaws. I don't see why you couldn't make such a light car more efficient and powerful. Hasn't this been done by the after-market?

Your point is valid but to me the car has no competition and they are going to continue to make mediocre improvements year after year until another large manufacturer gives them a run for their money, but that's not going to happen unless they are successful and with these types of decisions I doubt a lot of U.S. buyers are going to be thrilled about the transmission/warranty for starters. Give it a manual, for starters.

If Toyota had the IQ out and it got 0-60 in 8 seconds with a few less mpg, I'd go with the Toyota. But then again, I know very little about what people are doing with these Smarts in Europe and Canada, so maybe there's a way to overcome these issues later on down the road after the 24k mile warranty has expired...modifications maybe that would make it more efficient and/or faster.

Oh and for what it's worth, my vehicles that I own don't go very fast but they have acceleration when I need it and that's what I'm looking for in a car. I've only test driven the car for five minutes so I don't know much about the Smart other than from my experience. It seems adequate, otherwise I would have canceled my reservation...but I'm not thrilled about the transmission and if there were either a turbo or diesel version, I'd likely pick the turbo over the diesel and then ask the question...when are they coming out with the turbo diesel.

But apparently a CDI version (turbo diesel exists in Canada for the 450) which gets 19.8 sec 0-60...the question for me is, can I drive aggressively when I need to drive aggressively in traffic. To me those are the basics that should be standard...to then want a fun, super fast car is an option for the smart rebel....and there will always be muscle car lovers as long as we have men with small

[mdfortwoguy]

I took one out on I-270 yesterday. I-270 is a corridor between I-70 before Baltimore, and the Washington DC area. Needless to say, it is a fast moving, unforgiving piece of road.

I stood on the pedal about 1/4 - 1/2way down the entrance ramp and was delighted by 70 MPH before the bottom of th ramp. Had I kept my foot in it, I would have been to 75 or 80 for a merge with traffic.

Also, this thing is geared to get off the line with quite a bit of authority. Until about 30 MPH, it is quite a bit more quick than someone would expect - definitely enough to launch you past someone at a light or to squirt into a void in traffic. Watch some of the acceleration videos on youtube of the 451... you might be surprised.

[2009Aveo5]

Originally Posted by mdfortwoguy

I took one out on I-270 yesterday. I-270 is a corridor between I-70 before Baltimore, and the Washington DC area. Needless to say, it is a fast moving, unforgiving piece of road.

I stood on the pedal about 1/4 - 1/2way down the entrance ramp and was delighted by 70 MPH before the bottom of th ramp. Had I kept my foot in it, I would have been to 75 or 80 for a merge with traffic.

Also, this thing is geared to get off the line with quite a bit of authority. Until about 30 MPH, it is quite a bit more quick than someone would expect - definitely enough to launch you past someone at a light or to squirt into a void in traffic. Watch some of the acceleration videos on youtube of the 451... you might be surprised.

Well, that's good to hear. I keep thinking of certain roads as I drive on them...you have people merging onto the freeway (often 6-8 cars in a row trying to get on, and typically at far slower speeds than the moving traffic) and people in the left lane (a dozen or so cars moving much faster...and they aren't going to let you in) so you have to brake then accelerate up the hill after the fast cars have passed, then you have the slow cars that just got on the freeway eventually making a decent speed. You can try to stay in the fast lane but you will be harassed by cars that want you out of their way and so you try to be somewhat civil. So a lot of hills and a lot of slowing and then a big need to speed up then brake, switch lanes...it's a mess driving out here...but I'm still looking for that Smart Orphan and hopefully it won't be as slow as I envision it to be.

[mdfortwoguy]

Put it this way. Saturday's drive cured any qualms I have about driving mine back to Ohio once or twice a year (I fly back about monthly, but usually drive at Thanksgiving). There are some pretty big mountain passes, and a ton of uphill driving until you start getting on the western portion of West Virginia.

[HENSgirl]

I'd love diesel in my next generation smart, so I can start using my own biodiesel. No shortage of space now in my garage!

[dcrooks]

Originally Posted by mdfortwoguy

I took one out on I-270 yesterday. I-270 is a corridor between I-70 before Baltimore, and the Washington DC area. Needless to say, it is a fast moving, unforgiving piece of road.

I stood on the pedal about 1/4 - 1/2way down the entrance ramp and was delighted by 70 MPH before the bottom of th ramp. Had I kept my foot in it, I would have been to 75 or 80 for a merge with traffic.

Also, this thing is geared to get off the line with quite a bit of authority. Until about 30 MPH, it is quite a bit more quick than someone would expect - definitely enough to launch you past someone at a light or to squirt into a void in traffic. Watch some of the acceleration videos on youtube of the 451... you might be surprised.

I have been on Rt. 70 from Baltimore to Leesburg, Va and it was fine... It would be more of an experience going through the WV mountains... I guess you just have to stay to the right with the truckers...

I wanted to take my to Williamsburg this weekend. But my wife was not too thrilled about that idea. Plus I am not sure we would have enough space for our luggage...

[Commander Cody]

Just a note here and it's something I've read elsewheres and that is that the diesel vs gas is a wash.

Putting aside the good and bad (healthwise) of the various fuels and what's quicker off the line - one can look at the total cost of ownership and some say it comes out about even between a high mileage diesel and a lower mileage gasser. In short, when you pay the premium for a diesel engine and the unbelievable sky high price of diesel fuel in the US and compare that with the lower cost gas engine and its premium fuel requierement the cost to own either could come out about even.