Disabling ESP?

[jwight]

Fred, believe me after 34 years in the AF safety business I'm familiar with the risk based approach to things. Works fine unless you or I are the ones involved when that statistically improbable event happens. If I could be sure the guy with ESP disabled would never run on the street, fine. And if he did run on the street and lost it he'd be the only one injured or killed, OK too. But that's not how it works out so I look at something like disabling factory installed safety features as irresponsible at best, criminal at worst unless the car will only be operated off public highways. Not trying to get in a food fight, just stating my opinion, FWIW.

[JRyan]

If you are on an incline trying to accelerate, most of weight is shifted to the rear wheel to begin with. With a rear engine, rear wheel drive car, electronically controlled clutch, and 68 lb-ft of torque, I am not sure how much wheel spin you can expect even with ESP off.

My suspicion is there is little chance for the smart to spin its wheels in warm climate like SF.

Other factors to consider, smart has a open rear axle. ESP will apply the brake on the spinning wheel (in conjunction of reducing power) , and try to redirect power to the other non-spinning rear wheel to get the car moving. So even if the car is capable of spinning its wheels, I am not convinced that it will give you any added acceleration with ESP disabled.

[SmartAzz]

Warm, I wish, its maybe 40 windy and pouring freezing rain right now

And that's just it on inclines/ascending turns, with fog and rain and damp roads (and often just bad surface roads) its not just about the wheelspin to aid in attaining traction, it is that some ESPs cut the power dramatically as soon as it senses any traction loss, which will happen under those circumstances, that it renders it very difficult to launch. And with so little hp I wonder if it will have enough power to safely get up and over and merge safely.

Originally Posted by JRyan

If you are on an incline trying to accelerate, most of weight is shifted to the rear wheel to begin with. With a rear engine, rear wheel drive car, electronically controlled clutch, and 68 lb-ft of torque, I am not sure how much wheel spin you can expect even with ESP off.

My suspicion is there is little chance for the smart to spin its wheels in warm climate like SF.

Other factors to consider, smart has a open rear axle. ESP will apply the brake on the spinning wheel (in conjunction of reducing power) , and try to redirect power to the other non-spinning rear wheel to get the car moving. So even if the car is capable of spinning its wheels, I am not convinced that it will give you any added acceleration with ESP disabled.

[bmx43]

Originally Posted by SmartAzz

Warm, I wish, its maybe 40 windy and pouring freezing rain right now

And that's just it on inclines/ascending turns, with fog and rain and damp roads (and often just bad surface roads) its not just about the wheelspin to aid in attaining traction, it is that some ESPs cut the power dramatically as soon as it senses any traction loss, which will happen under those circumstances, that it renders it very difficult to launch. And with so little hp I wonder if it will have enough power to safely get up and over and merge safely.

yea, i had to laugh at the "warm" comment for SF too. sometimes people confuse where you live with where i live hahaha. and heck it's even cold down here right now.

[propes]

I can turn off traction control on my Saturn, and the only reason I do that, is if I get stuck on an icy patch and need to rock your way out. Depending on where you are in these northern climes, it can approach necessity.

[Karl Roth]

I would very nice to turn off, has anyone counted the # of danger Will Robinson warnings in the owners manual. sometime I wonder how I got this old.
karl

Danger! 218 times....

[Fredvon4]

I do not have esp or traction control on any of my personal vehicles... but I travel on business at least once a month and rent cars... most domestics with these systems have a option to enable or defeat the system... Every one I drive has the system off as the default....

John... You and I actually have very similar safety backgrounds...Mine as School trained Army air and ground safety NCO/ trainer and aircraft crash investigator.... I know your argument is sound from a systems approach...

And I agree that they put these systems in the Smart car because it has driving characteristics that make it an inherently unstable automobile.

All I am arguing is that there are legitimate reasons to disable the system... I am not suggesting that the "common man" should deliberately turn it off for normal daily driving.... In that case your concerns are legitimate, reasonable, and I fully agree

[mdfortwoguy]

I've never seen any vehicle default to ESP off as its default.

In the litigious society of the US... that would be way too much liability on the automakers.

[eqwalker]

I agree. On my other vehicle the ESP is always on but their is a button that you can press to turn it off. But as soon as you kill the car and start it back up it is back on again.

[Karl Roth]

Originally Posted by eqwalker

I agree. On my other vehicle the ESP is always on but their is a button that you can press to turn it off. But as soon as you kill the car and start it back up it is back on again.

sounds great to me, as a non law school grad.
karl