IF Gas Prices reach $4 a gallon or higher...

[Westfield 11]

I think people will not make a permanent change in response to high prices until they are convinced that fuel will not drop again in the future. If we use taxation to guarantee that gas will never go below $4 again. this will allow people to make plans with some certainty that they will not be blindsided if they downsize like back in '79. I myself would gladly pay $6 a gallon if it meant there was Universal Health Care, let alone decent public transit, but I am not a single mother trying to get by either.

[tlie03]

Originally Posted by timhood

Everyone talks about the Metro like it's some great thing because it got high gas mileage.

Look - it's a converted Metro "ForTwo" with even better gas mileage!

[cosmart]

If we had true elected LEADERS instead of puppets, we could implement solutions instead of lip service like let's drill the coasts, which won't impact the price of oil at all.

Here is the solution. Gas tax is raised to $4.00/gal. Guess what? Gas is still cheaper than London. There are about 500 gallons of gasoline used each year for every man, woman and child in the US. Many of those are children, of course, so per adult, the use is higher. We give each 16 year old or older citizen ration coupons or a mag-strip card that allows them to buy 400 gallons per year tax free. After that, you either pay full pump price, OR, you buy credits from someone who conserves. They get the $4.00 gallon tax free income for each gallon they don't burn.

What happens? First of all, there is a huge incentive to conserve. Second of all, people who do conserve are rewarded financially. Third of all, all the BS about single mothers being impacted goes out the window, because they are getting 400 gallons a year CHEAPER than they are now. If they are smart, they learn how to rideshare or use public transportation. If they give up using a car altogether, they get $1600 tax free.

Let the whining begin.

[rawlus®]

that's a great proposal.

[bull8042]

SECOND! Motion to carry?!?

[Westfield 11]

Originally Posted by cosmart

What happens? First of all, there is a huge incentive to conserve. Second of all, people who do conserve are rewarded financially.

What happens? First of all, there is a huge incentive to counterfit. Second of all, people who do counterfit are rewarded financially.

Let the printing begin.

[cosmart]

Originally Posted by Westfield 11

What happens? First of all, there is a huge incentive to counterfit. Second of all, people who do counterfit are rewarded financially.

Let the printing begin.

I guess you missed the part about the mag-stripe card?

Sure, people could steal the cards, just like they steal ATM cards or debit cards or credit cards, but they would be protected by a PIN, just like ATM/debit cards.

Transfer of tax credits between people would be done online, or by toll free number. Each person would be required to supply their PIN.

The overhead would be more than covered by the additional taxes collected, which could be used to build an actual mass transit infrastructure in the US.

The current credit/debit card readers would be used. Both of the gas stations left in the US that don't take credit/debit cards would be SOL. Good riddance. The credit card companies would certainly be eager to handle the transaction for the government for a cut of the proceeds. Specific implementation could even be by the card being a special Visa/Master Card/AmEx that only works for gas, and which just credits the gas station for the tax amount out of the tax card, and the rest of the bill out of whatever other card (or cash) that is used. Taxes could then be paid exactly the same way they are currently by the retailers. This is not rocket science.

A card would not be required to buy gas. You could always pay full price (which would still be LESS than they pay in Europe), and many people would end up doing that by the end of the year, because demand would be likely to exceed tax-credited gallons. If you did end up on 12/31 with unused credits, they would roll over to the next year. After a few years, someone who saved all their credits could have a nice vacation. People would be guaranteed their $4.00/gal without having to deal with a cash transaction by the option of using their unused credits to pay their income taxes.

[Westfield 11]

Originally Posted by cosmart

I guess you missed the part about the mag-stripe card?

Here in CA credit card/atm card theft is very common. The crooks have card readers and card mfg. machines. A common ploy is to piggyback their theft device on to the legitimate reader on the pump. This will give them your card and your PIN. With the incentive of $2000+ worth of gasoline I can't see this not occuring. How do you prove to the Feds that your card was copied? It's a chore to convince a bank to give back a few hundred nowdays, imagine dealing with your friendly federal office drone!

Recently some resturant workers were arrested for stealing hundreds of credit card numbers, do you think that clerks at mini-marts are immune to this sort of temptation? It is supposedly very easy to hack card swipe terminals.

Not saying it's a bad idea, just that it has some problems....

[Old smart]

Maybe this is buried somewhere in the 11 pages of this thread, but I am seeing more gas stations double-pricing - credit or cash (cash being a couple of cents less).

I do that if there is a collector out at the pumps, but I don't much like the idea of me strolling across the lot to go into the store. I don't like holding up the guy behind me while I go pay the bill, and I don't like leaving "my pump" unattended and alive until it is re-set from inside and off my account.

[cosmart]

Originally Posted by Westfield 11

Here in CA credit card/atm card theft is very common. The crooks have card readers and card mfg. machines. A common ploy is to piggyback their theft device on to the legitimate reader on the pump. This will give them your card and your PIN. With the incentive of $2000+ worth of gasoline I can't see this not occuring. How do you prove to the Feds that your card was copied? It's a chore to convince a bank to give back a few hundred nowdays, imagine dealing with your friendly federal office drone!

Recently some resturant workers were arrested for stealing hundreds of credit card numbers, do you think that clerks at mini-marts are immune to this sort of temptation? It is supposedly very easy to hack card swipe terminals.

Not saying it's a bad idea, just that it has some problems....

Do you have a credit or debit card? Why? Someone might hack it! I guess you must be totally cash, right?

This proposal has no more problems than any other credit or debit card. Why? Because it would BE a debit card, with VISA/MC/AmEx's name(your choice) on it. Let's make it orange. On January 1, the government would put a $1600 credit into the account, to be used only for buying gas, $4.00/gal credit at a time, or paying income taxes. When you buy gas, if you want the credit, you swipe the card first. The price is reduced by $4.00 a gallon. If you don't swipe your orange card, the price stays at pump price. You now pay NORMALLY. Either you swipe your debit/credit, or you go inside and pay cash, or you pump and pay later, if that is allowed.

If there is fraud, the credit card company deals with it, just like they do today. The credit card company gets 3%, so when the $1600 is deposited by the feds on January 1, the credit card company gets an additional $48. On top of that they get the money in your account to invest/make interest on until you use it. Now it is all outside the realm of the government.

The taxes collected would pay every cent of cost of the program, with HUNDREDS of billions left over for infrastructure improvements and mass transit. People would actually conserve gasoline, so demand would drop. Prices would come down with decreased demand. The working poor who need to get to work would get 400 gallons a year CHEAPER than they do today. Alternatives would spring up. People would rideshare and take mass transit. Smart people who can live without gasoline make a nice chunk of change.