Quote:
Originally Posted by Dunerunner
OMG...I can't believe the responses!!! Kudos for paying it forward mvaldes and jwight!! If you don't want the filters then don't bash the effort to make them available to other members who do!!
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There's no bashing here - what we have is information - you can accept it and use it to further your awareness of what these filters represent or simply ignore it - your choice. The filters will always be available if you want them.
By the way, Arlen Spicer did not conduct these series of tests! The tests were independently conducted on a purpose-built, $285,000 air filter testing machine at Testand Corp of Rhode Island. And contrary to what was posted, they were not debunked. K&N's testing was done 'in-house'.
If any "debunking" is being done it is to the claims of K&N in relation to use in road cars. I have noted that they have toned down their claims somewhat but still use misleading wording and controversial claims. They word their advertising and claims in such a way as to create an impression that readers could interpret as factual when K&N did not actually state it as fact. Their marketing has been very slik and that is why they have been successful in marketing to car enthusiasts who want to believe. For this reason consumers must be cautious and do a thorough investigation to know what they are really being offered. Caveat Emptor!
The following reference goes a long way to explain the "debunking" comments and Spicer's experiences with K&N. This requires a careful reading.
http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/showthread.php?t=66536
The ISO standards that apply are ISO 5011:2000, 11841-1&2:2000, 12103-1&2:1997, and 19713-1&2. I don't know what stage these are currently in or what tests K&N referred to, probably the 5011. The standards are specific and don't support claims of greater horsepower or filtration ability that does not allow the passage of wear particles. ISO standards are only for repeatability and documentation - if a company is making a poor product (performance wise) it just has to continue making that poor product. They are also not comparable from one testing facility to another.
It's important that drivers understand what they are doing when replacing OEM components like air filters. These oiled gauze, and foam, filters were originally designed for use in off-road vehicles and for competition use. Oiled gauze filters are great in the right applications - road going vehicles is not one of them. In engines that were designed for their use or situations that can take advantage of their wet durability they can provide maximum output but your smart car was designed with the OEM paper filter in mind. Replacing that with a more porous gauze filter will most likely not net you any more power or economy, but it will certainly introduce more dirt into your engine depending on the ambient conditions you tend to drive in. Removing the filter altogether will not even produce more power. To see the effect from using these filters all you need to do is to run with a K&N (or equivalent) filter for a period of time then examine your intake tract. You will find a layer of fine dirt. Also, get an oil analysis and you will see an increased percentage of silicone (dirt) over the times when the OEM filter is being used.
You might also be be aware that these porous gauze filters may flow more air when new and clean but they load up faster than the OEM paper filters and their advantage suffers as indicated in the testing. Note the quote - "...
These filters (K&N) had a lower initial restriction, but they became exponentially more restrictive under a constant flow of dirt". Note this quote as well - "
Compared to the AC, the K&N “plugged up” nearly 3 times faster, passed 18 times more dirt and captured 37% less dirt."
I've used K&N filters in the past by the way, but they were used for competition and off road. They are also well made and durable. That does not mean that I would use them in my road cars.
There is much more that can be said but I won't bother here. This has all been rehashed over and over again on other car and motorcycle forums. Perhaps smart car owners only have to live through the experience.
tmater
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