Remote Start For Smart Cars???

[downloaders]

Hi all,

this topic is quite old, but iI seached everywhere and found no answer no my problem.
I also want to instar an alarm with starter, but as I was told the imobilizer wont let me use it "normally". This means that i will have to unlock the car with the standard remote (to disable the imobilizer) and only then, will i be able to star the car remotelly with the alarms pager.
As I understood from the posts on this topic, someone has managed to do this whitout having to unlock the car with the standard remote first, and some part of the key's standard remote is hidden somewhere in the car to disable the imobilizer.
The thing is, here in europe there is no chip in the key-remote that you could place into the car, our imobilizer is deactivated only by pressing the "open" button on the key remote (so there is no chip in the key).
Could someone maybe post a picture of the guts of your keys just to check if they are equal to ours, or if they maybe have the chip i mentioned?
And also, could someone post how they found a work arround to make the remote star work despite the imobilizer?

Thanks for any help

[John_H]

Originally Posted by downloaders

Could someone maybe post a picture of the guts of your keys just to check if they are equal to ours, or if they maybe have the chip i mentioned?

Click on the image for something larger.

[Karl Roth]

I believe the chip you need is in the metal key blank and needs to be coded to your specific car. Don't think it is an American only thing like the 10 gallon tanks some people have.
good luck karl

[24-42]

Originally Posted by Karl Roth

I believe the chip you need is in the metal key blank and needs to be coded to your specific car. Don't think it is an American only thing like the 10 gallon tanks some people have.
good luck karl

With all due respect, I disagree with you Karl.
It is possible that I'm incorrect but I highly doubt it.

I will go on record to state I highly question that there is anything electronic within the metal portion of the 451 key (electronics are all in the fob) in other words, if the metal part of the key were to be duplicated, EX: by a key cutting machine, the new key with the fob will operate exactly as the OEM key did. I know for fact there are absolutely zero electronics within the metal portion of the 450 key and I highly doubt that changed with the advent of the 451.

I also think that in addition to the starter circuit being inoperative, the ignition circuit is also disabled when the immobilizer is activated. If true, this precludes the bypassing of the normal starting circuit. This I will confirm tomorrow. It's after 1:00 am right now.

I welcome factual evidence to the contrary and any logical hypothesis, however.........

Any posts not prefaced as theory (speculation) are categorically rejected from being being factual.

Donald LaFavor

[Karl Roth]

Originally Posted by 24-42

With all due respect, I disagree with you Karl.
It is possible that I'm incorrect but I highly doubt it.

I will go on record to state I highly question that there is anything electronic within the metal portion of the 451 key (electronics are all in the fob) in other words, if the metal part of the key were to be duplicated, EX: by a key cutting machine, the new key with the fob will operate exactly as the OEM key did. I know for fact there are absolutely zero electronics within the metal portion of the 450 key and I highly doubt that changed with the advent of the 451.

I also think that in addition to the starter circuit being inoperative, the ignition circuit is also disabled when the immobilizer is activated. If true, this precludes the bypassing of the normal starting circuit. This I will confirm tomorrow. It's after 1:00 am right now.

I welcome factual evidence to the contrary and any logical hypothesis, however.........

Any posts not prefaced as theory (speculation) are categorically rejected from being being factual.

Donald LaFavor

Don I am not an electrical engineer but the fact that you need to buy the key blanks in matched sets and can program up to six total leads me to believe there is something in the 451 key blank.
karl

[John_H]

By "key blanks" don't they mean "key blank assemblies" which includes the electronics on the end? There was the thread a while back on taking the metal out of the plastic and mounting both on a keychain so you don't have such a long, bulky key but don't lose the immobilizer control. The end of the metal part of the key was also machined futher to fit into a retractable key fob.

You can be pretty sure electronics aren't in the metal. For one thing, how would the electronics interact if "encased" in metal? There are no batteries in the metal, so it would have to be RF. But since it's encased in metal, electric fields wouldn't penetrate. I know of no near-field electronics that use only magnetic fields to transfer power and read back information.

[24-42]

Originally Posted by John_H

By "key blanks" don't they mean "key blank assemblies" which includes the electronics on the end? There was the thread a while back on taking the metal out of the plastic and mounting both on a keychain so you don't have such a long, bulky key but don't lose the immobilizer control. The end of the metal part of the key was also machined further to fit into a retractable key fob.

You can be pretty sure electronics aren't in the metal. For one thing, how would the electronics interact if "encased" in metal? There are no batteries in the metal, so it would have to be RF. But since it's encased in metal, electric fields wouldn't penetrate. I know of no near-field electronics that use only magnetic fields to transfer power and read back information.

My point exactly, John. Your explanation proves the point.

The "key blank assemblies" would consist of a fob containing all the electronics which must be programed to the particular car and a chunk of metal that would normally be physically cut to fit the mechanical portion of the ignition lock.
In my opinion, the metal chunk could be discarded. I surmise the fob circuitry is integrated with the remote start circuitry to turn off the immobilizer just prior to activating the remote starter.

BTW; The ignition is off when the immobilizer is on. I verified that this morning, so as John has explained, the immobilizer would have to be bypassed and that is only done via the circuitry in the fob.

What do you think John ?

Donald LaFavor

[John_H]

Since I don't know how the immobilizer interplays with the ignition system, I don't have further insight. It seems like it would be a software issue to allow the cold-morning remote start of the engine while disabling the ability to drive off. Leaving the immobilizer handshake part of the circuitry in the car for the remote start would certainly defeat the purpose of having an immobilizer!

[posttal]

I see this is an old posting but I have to toss in my 2 cents.I'm getting a remote starter put in the wifes smartie.I just had them put one in my f150 last week and they said the process is the same.They have a box with a chip in it(imobilizer box) and they place your key in it and the box reads the key and duplicates the freqency of the key.The box is then hid in the dash..its not big..little bigger than a hide a key..He said it was like reprograming a tv or garage remote with another remote.For example my F150 has a door opener built in the sun visor.I hold the sears garage door opener up to it press the search button and the truck reads the opener and presto its good to go.When they did my truck they needed both keys..but I got them both back.He said the smart car is the same thing..no big deal except that he had to order the box since he doesn't get a large enough demand to justify stocking one.Total price 199.00 for the remote start which will lock the doors and turn on the running lights and tie into the factory limited alarm..40.00 more for a full funtion alarm with the vibration detector and siren which I'm not getting.After the install on my truck I wired in my heated mirrors..I'll wire in the seats on her car.The alarm..A Code Alarm brand..comes with an extra relay and I told the installer I wanted it as well as the install and programing instructions..not the the users manual.You hit start and it starts..hit it again and it trips the relay to power either the seats or mirrors..hold it down and the car stops.
Again..Just my 2 cents worth
Posttal AKA Ralph

[noodle9]

the chip is on the circuit board. I just installed a remote starter yesterday. I took the guts out of my key and installed it in the bypass module for the remote starter. Now I just start it remotely then when I get in I put my key in the ignition and tur it to run. I used the remote start from Bulldog security bought at my local meijers store and also their 791 bypass module. It works great.