Smart vs. Mini

[stuberman]

I have liked the Mini since I saw it in the movie the Italian Job. When I go to the site I get this pricing which compares to all of the features I wanted/ordered on my ForTwo Passion:

$18,050 Mini Cooper (base)
500 Heated seats and mirrors (cold weather package)
500 Dynamic Stability Control DSC
1250 Automated Manual transmission
250 Rain sensor and auto headlights
1500 Leather seats
1500 A/C, Panoramic Roof, HiFi sound (Premium Package)
250 Rear Spoiler
500 Alarm
350 iPod connector
650 Delivery Charge
$24,950 Invoice

I ordered:
$13,590 smart Passion (base)
175 Silver Tridion
-0- Automated manual tranmission
850 Leather seats, heated seats/mirrors, rain sensor/auto headlights (comfort package)
- 0 - Electronic Stability Program - ESP
- 0 - A/C and Panoramic Roof (part of Passion base)
350 Premium sound system (subwoofer, tweeters, changer, etc)
160 Alarm system
120 Tach and clock instruments
645 Delivery Charge
$15,890 Invoice

Of course there are differences between the cars but for comparison purposes this is what I would use.

I sat in a Mini a few years ago and came to the sad realization that I am simply too tall to drive it. I am glad I waited a few more years for the smart car since I find it very satisfying. I have to wonder why the huge price difference and all that I can come up with is that the Mini has to support an old style car dealership system (expensive dealers, advertising, sophisticated IT systems with all of that cool online ordering and tracking software, traditional manufacturing systems). What smartUSA has are not dealerships but low cost delivery centers which is why you won't see tons of salespeople prowling around trying to negotiate with you. I asked how they take orders at a delivery center and they told me that they basically sit someone down at a computer and show them how to order online! I think it is brilliant but for those who want a richer customer experience you just won't find that at smart. (I have some paper bags from smart France and they state: "smart reduce to the max" which sums up a lot of the philosophy.)

[anthony94114]

I had a 2003 MINI Crapper and after 9 trips back to the dealer for general build issues, in 13 months, I went from pure love to a rabid dislike for the Cooper.. dealer service was inept also.

That said, my smart with only 250 miles has been back to the dealer and spent a week out of service and the problem is back again, after seemingly being fixed. It's going back in this week when smartusa tells the dealer what to do. Not off to a good start- though many have had trouble-free smarts.

That said.. it's a super cool car that works brilliantly in the city. For more serious highway travel, I'd definitely go with the MINI. It's redesigned from the model I had and generally people seem satisfied with them. Maybe I'm just the keeper of the lemons.

[Smartdavis]

I like the driving position of the Smart better. You sit higher than the mini and you can get in and out of the car without doing deep knee bends. When I am running lots of errands I can park it more easily and get in and out quicker. The mini is a cool looking car but for my purposes the Smart works better.

[kwagar]

I owned a 2004 MCS which I sold to purchase my smart. IMO they are both great cars but are very different. The MCS is a drivers car-meant to be driven hard and designed for the twisties. No greater driving thrill than the MCS on the Tail of the Dragon. I am 58-felt like I was 18 again-what a blast.

On the other hand the car was just a car on the flat straight roads of central Florida. A bit boring. Ride was a bit harsh with the run-flats, milage averaged around 28 to 30 primarily because I drove it hard. For the same reason it ate tires-had to replace about every 8000-10,000 miles.

If I lived in the mts of North Carolina or the Rockies i would go with the Mini.

smart car more of a commuter, Lots of laughs and attention. gretat mileage, better equipment for less money. Choice really depends on the use of the car, driving style and personnal preferance. Based on my current needs I am very happy with the smart and have no regrets but for others the issues may be different. Other issue is price. I would only have a Mini if an "S" fully equiped with Areo Kit and fancy wheels which puts the price tag in the $30,000 range almost twice the cost of my smart Passion.

[dennyrex]

I've noticed that most of the "thing 1 vs. thing 2" threads compare the smart to other cars that are either re-releases or otherwise nostalgically-aimed models: VW new beetle, PT Cruiser, mini cooper; while the smart seems to me to be more forward thinking. The Yaris/Fit are neither here nor there so far as I can see, just corporate thinking.
There seems to be a basic difference in the attraction to the past or the future when choosing the mini or the smart. I love the original mini, but never took to the new one; it was on my short list at least in theory, but I chose the smart without much trouble.

[bottlerocket]

thanks for all of those posts who have had (or have) both cars, just solidifies my decision on waiting for the Smart than jumping on a pre-owned Mini (my way of trying to minimize the price difference).

I must say I hear the quality issues on the Mini quite a bit and that worries me.... I hear issues on the Smart too but they all sound similar/easily fixable after a dealer trip or two if need be.

[SmartJJ]

Originally Posted by bottlerocket

I must say I hear the quality issues on the Mini quite a bit and that worries me.... I hear issues on the Smart too but they all sound similar/easily fixable after a dealer trip or two if need be.

I've had 2 MINIs and no quality problems with either. I'm involved in a very active MINI community and most have the same wonderful experience I have. So I would not shy away from a MINI for that reason. Again, they are very different cars.

Reliability likely relates in some ways to your recent car experiences. Hardly anything beats the Japanese for reliable cars and cheap repairs.. Imho, they also are boring cars. It's a tradeoff.

German cars are well built, but repairs are not inexpensive. But fun to drive ** yes!

[JPaul]

Originally Posted by SmartJJ

German cars are well built, but repairs are not inexpensive. But fun to drive ** yes!

And, as far as French cars are concerned, well, let's say that it has been a quite a while since the last Peugeot and Renault were sold on the regular market in the US...

[brian r]

Originally Posted by bottlerocket

I must say I hear the quality issues on the Mini quite a bit and that worries me.... I hear issues on the Smart too but they all sound similar/easily fixable after a dealer trip or two if need be.

I have an '06 Cooper and haven't had a single problem with it. Early cars had a wide array of problems, including bad transmissions. The newer cars are reliable and rattle-free.

Originally Posted by kwagar

IMO they are both great cars but are very different.

I agree completely. The fortwo is a city car. The Mini is an all-around car. I just took the Cooper on a 1600 mile trip, averaging almost 70 mph including stops. It got 33 mpg. I've gotten 38 closer to 60-65. I also drove in high winds and blasted by semis through US 80 in PA, and it felt like I was driving a BMW 3 series with FWD.

Originally Posted by stuberman

I have liked the Mini since I saw it in the movie the Italian Job. When I go to the site I get this pricing which compares to all of the features I wanted/ordered on my ForTwo Passion:

$18,050 Mini Cooper (base)
500 Heated seats and mirrors (cold weather package)
500 Dynamic Stability Control DSC
1250 Automated Manual transmission
250 Rain sensor and auto headlights
1500 Leather seats
1500 A/C, Panoramic Roof, HiFi sound (Premium Package)
250 Rear Spoiler
500 Alarm
350 iPod connector
650 Delivery Charge
$24,950 Invoice

I ordered:
$13,590 smart Passion (base)
175 Silver Tridion
-0- Automated manual tranmission
850 Leather seats, heated seats/mirrors, rain sensor/auto headlights (comfort package)
- 0 - Electronic Stability Program - ESP
- 0 - A/C and Panoramic Roof (part of Passion base)
350 Premium sound system (subwoofer, tweeters, changer, etc)
160 Alarm system
120 Tach and clock instruments
645 Delivery Charge
$15,890 Invoice

Of course there are differences between the cars but for comparison purposes this is what I would use.

I sat in a Mini a few years ago and came to the sad realization that I am simply too tall to drive it. I am glad I waited a few more years for the smart car since I find it very satisfying. I have to wonder why the huge price difference and all that I can come up with is that the Mini has to support an old style car dealership system (expensive dealers, advertising, sophisticated IT systems with all of that cool online ordering and tracking software, traditional manufacturing systems). What smartUSA has are not dealerships but low cost delivery centers which is why you won't see tons of salespeople prowling around trying to negotiate with you. I asked how they take orders at a delivery center and they told me that they basically sit someone down at a computer and show them how to order online! I think it is brilliant but for those who want a richer customer experience you just won't find that at smart. (I have some paper bags from smart France and they state: "smart reduce to the max" which sums up a lot of the philosophy.)

I've got to disagree and say that the Mini is a lot more car than the Smart. Mine cost $18,950 with a sunroof, metallic paint, and the roof spoiler. The dealer threw in the mats and ipod hook-up.

I lot of the difference is in the construction. A base Cooper weighs 800 pounds more than a fortwo; you pay more, but get a lot more. I've taken mine apart to add sound deadening and a stereo, and the entire car is built like a larger BMW-or a smart triton cell. The car rides and handles a ton better (unless you're talking about a Cooper "S" riding on the lowered suspension and run-flat 17" or larger tires), and gets to 60 in a bit over 8 seconds. For me, performance means active safety. I can use it to stay away from trouble. Also, the BMW content in the car is evident. The standard radio/cd unit is the same Alpine used in BMWs. The speakers are from Phillips, and it sounds better than many premium stereos. The leatherette upholstery is superb-it's also right off the 3/5 series shelf, and fools a lot of people. It's at least as good as the fortwo's leather.

Mini dealers are part of pre-existing BMW dealerships. They use the same ordering/tracking systems as other German manufacturers because that's how it's done over there. And like the fortwo, they're sold at MSRP. The guys at the dealership are there to help you order what you want, or find it in stock, not to dicker price and "sell" the car. There's also more profit in a Mini; it's only about $1000 in a smart, to keep the price down of course. I've seen a $50,000 Mini (Cooper s JCW convertable with every option except heated seats), and people are lined up for $30k Minis all day. It's a lifestyle car-so is the smart, but the benchmark is quite different.

That being said, I'm picking up my Smart on Saturday.

[SmartAzz]

Originally Posted by brian r

I also drove in high winds and blasted by semis through US 80 in PA, and it felt like I was driving a BMW 3 series with FWD.

Funny you say that, I always noticed the brick-like drag coefficient of the Mini and high center of gravity, was a difficult transition from the hunkering 3 series we had before.

I won't go through all of my experiences with the Mini for comparison, it is not just that everyone has different opinions and different experiences with cars/service, but that to me there really is no comparison, IMHO you cannot separate the Smart experience from the fact it is a micro car, and it has other distinctly unique features that basically leave it incomparable to anything else on the market right now.