This forum doesn't only delete posts......... and the way Critical Thinker is proceeding, he/she will likely be joining the infamous mmmeat in permanent time out........ which will be regrettable, as was mmmeat's demise. Controversy does not thrive here.......... bullying, being terminally obnoxious, and portraying oneself as master of all things smart is ok, but not controversy. .
Really? That's sad, isn't it. If a member is not breaking the forum rules, then why would he/she be banned from posting in the forum? Please tell me that this forum isn't one of those "happy happy joy joy" forums in which everyone has to pat each other on the back and congratulate each other for making such wonderful decisions in life!
OK, I understand, but keep in mind that we are working at two very different levels here. As you have seen from my other thread, I've taken real world data, generated a model and analyzed the expected outcome for the average car vs. what happened. The model is not perfect, but does show in the ballpark range that the number of deaths is less than the expected number of deaths (assuming average cars). While anything is possible, seeing a huge rise in the number of Smart Deaths is highly unlikely, but we would have to go into probability, sampling, and the bell curve to talk about that.
Your arguments tend to be hypothetical examples that look at one condition and ignore the full context of real world data. In the case of looking at head-on accidents small vs. big, this is only 2% of the accidents. What about the other 98% of the accidents?
Personally, I believe that you have made up you mind and no amount of real world data will ever prove other wise or change you mindset. Please enjoy whatever car you chose to drive. I see no point in continuing any debate with you, because we are working on two different levels.
Best Wishes,
Bob Diaz
Quite honestly Bob, if you actually had significant real world data that was undeniably accurate, then I'd have to reconsider my opinion. But thus far, I've only seen semi-fallacies backed by skewed data and questionable theories at best. No offense to you, but as a teacher, I'm absolutely sure that you can not only understand the things I've questioned in your theory/data, but I'm also quite sure you even agree with my points as well.
One more question CT, why do you quadruple post to our replies? It'll be a lot better if you could use our quotes and answer them in one post.
There's a multi-quote post reply to the right of every post in this forum.
I dunno... I guess it just seems better to me to respond to each section when someone types out a long message, instead of trying to group everything together. It's just the way I've always responded in message forums.
Really? That's sad, isn't it. If a member is not breaking the forum rules, then why would he/she be banned from posting in the forum? Please tell me that this forum isn't one of those "happy happy joy joy" forums in which everyone has to pat each other on the back and congratulate each other for making such wonderful decisions in life!
Well we like to keep the peace. We consider ourselves to be a community, not just a forum of old and young people talking about just any car.
Some could get easily banned from just being the annoying troll.
Oh and as for forum rules, quadruple posting is looked down upon
I think it's fine that someone would use a SUV for camping, towing, and hauling a bunch of goods and people. But it's that unnecessary use of a SUV that's the problem. For the majority of the year if you and maybe someone else is going to be the only occupants then no, you don't need such a vehicle. I currently share a GMC Envoy with my mother and when I'm driving by myself I feel like a complete fool. That's because I don't need to drive such a vehicle, nor does my mother. The only time we actually need the eight passenger space and the six cylinder engine is when we take a vacation each year. So from winter to that short period in the summer the car stays empty in back. Also included with how useless the Envoy is it didn't do well in crash safety. It almost makes me laugh at how a small car like the smart could do better in crash safety than a car that takes up most of a lane, but it does do better.
My point is, you really don't need a SUV unless your life involes constant use of the vehicle's capabilities. And don't bring safety into question, driving a SUV is just as safe as driving a car with a Center of Gravity of five feet and built out of Coke cans.
I think it's fine that someone would use a SUV for camping, towing, and hauling a bunch of goods and people. But it's that unnecessary use of a SUV that's the problem. For the majority of the year if you and maybe someone else is going to be the only occupants then no, you don't need such a vehicle. I currently share a GMC Envoy with my mother and when I'm driving by myself I feel like a complete fool. That's because I don't need to drive such a vehicle, nor does my mother. The only time we actually need the eight passenger space and the six cylinder engine is when we take a vacation each year. So from winter to that short period in the summer the car stays empty in back. Also included with how useless the Envoy is it didn't do well in crash safety. It almost makes me laugh at how a small car like the smart could do better in crash safety than a car that takes up most of a lane, but it does do better.
My point is, you really don't need a SUV unless your life involes constant use of the vehicle's capabilities.
You may have missed one of my other posts where I explain why I actually NEED an SUV, so I'll recap it for you here.
Here are some of the reasons why I chose to buy a midsize SUV:
Kayaking - I can fit two kayaks on my roof and still have room inside for paddles, life vest, and other gear
Mountain biking - I can fit up to four mountain bikes on my hitch-mounted Thule rack and still have room inside for my gear.
Skiing - I can fit two pairs of skis and two snowboards on top of my roof and still have room for four passengers. I never going skiing alone, but usually with a group of people.
Snowmobiling & Jet skiing. I can tow two of each, depending upon the season.
Winter Cabin in Upstate NY - Absolutely requires a capable 4x4 with decent ground clearance to reach the cabin in the winter. It's on an unmaintained road (if you want to even call it that) and even something like a Subaru Forrester would have absolutely no chance whatsoever making it up there in the middle of the winter. To date, I only know if a few different 4wd SUVs that can even make it - 4Runners, Jeeps, and Land Rovers. Anything else just doesn't have both the 4wd capability and the required ground clearance.
So there you have it.... but do I use my 4Runner to do these things every single day? No, not every day. But probably a lot closer to every day than you think. I'm always riding my mountain bike. I live just a few miles from the Hudson river, so I'm in my kayak at least 2 or 3 times per week, as it's probably my favorite spring/summer/fall activity. I ski just about every weekend during the winter. and when I'm not skiing, I love to get on the Arctic Cat sled. Heck, I've even camped out in the back of my 4Runner. Folding down the rear seats leaves me with a completely flat and level floor and just over 6 feet of space between the back of the front seats and the tailgate. Perfect for me as I'm 6'0".
If I didn't live this kind of life, I certainly wouldn't say that I NEED an SUV. But if I didn't have an SUV, I don't know how I'd be able to do the things I like to do so much...
BTW, I liked the video of the SUV test crashes. One thing that came to mind is that none of those SUVs are true full frame vehicles, but rather built like cars with a unibody frame. A lot of the Jeep guys weren't happy when the Grand Cherokee lost it's ladder frame and instead became a unibody vehicle.
The 4Runner (my SUV of choice) is still to this day a fully boxed ladder frame vehicle. In a side impact collision, I believe it would fare better than SUVs without a solid frame as far as intrusion of another vehicle into the lower door and seat area. Some of those vehicles in the video looked pretty bad if you ask me. I'll have to see if I can dig up some vids on the newer 4Runners to see how they handled such a collision.
I could be wrong, but I believe a "Good" rating is the top rating given in these tests.
It is, but without those "optional" airbags = .
Ratings are: "GOOD" "ACCEPTABLE" "MARGINAL" "POOR" and "NOT TESTED"
I did read your post about what you need your SUV for, I thought those were the type of things you might do once a year (like me).
I do have to applaud Toyota for the 4Runner and the Hilux, they're some tough SUVs. Top Gear even attempted several times to destroy a Hilux and had to resort to insane methods.
Well, as long as you don't drive the "deathtrap" of GM's SUVs I'm fine with that.
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