SMART wreck on Jalopnik

[jetfuel]

Originally Posted by Critical Thinker

but rather wondering why he/she would make the choice in the first place...

...because we are free to do so...without having to explain it...

jetfuel...two smart owner...

[Critical Thinker]

Originally Posted by jetfuel

...because we are free to do so...without having to explain it...

jetfuel...two smart owner...

Fair enough... but then again I'm also free to ask for those who might want to actually explain it.

[jetfuel]

...but then again...
...great thougts will overwhelm the feeble mind..
...ignorance is bliss, but stupidity is orgasmic...

jetfuel

[Big Panda]

Originally Posted by jetfuel

...but then again...
...great thougts will overwhelm the feeble mind..
...ignorance is bliss, but stupidity is orgasmic...

jetfuel

Are you speaking from experience?

[Big Panda]

Originally Posted by Critical Thinker

It would be silly for me to respond to all of those people in one single post.

...............and yet with this post that's exactly what you've done.


(looks like you've been busy.....68 posts in a WEEK?)

[Kermit]

Originally Posted by Critical Thinker

Since you mentioned it, the safety aspect is just one question in my mind. Quite honestly, there are other things that make me wonder why also...

1- Fuel economy - while the smart is definitely considered economical as compared to the average car, there are other vehicles out there that are more economical, while offering other advantages as well.

I have two smarts - one has averaged 42.6mpg over 31,500 miles and the other has averaged 40.5 mpg over 15,600 miles. What vehicles are more economical? Hybrids I suppose.

Originally Posted by Critical Thinker

2- Utility - Speaking of other advantages, the smart has very little room for cargo.

Tonight I bought a FULL cart of groceries. What the heck am I planning on buying that I need a bigger car? I don't run out all the time and buy stuff anymore. Actually, the smart has helped me stop my habit of impulse buying. I guess you must take a trip to The Home Depot everyday where you need something bigger

Originally Posted by Critical Thinker

3- Price - Sure, the smart is not expensive, but again there are other cars that are just as inexpensive or even less expensive out there that don't have some of the disadvantages of the smart.

Actually, to include my 2 smarts I also have a Yaris. The only reason for the Yaris was my kid turned down the smart - why? - It stood out too much and too many strangers approached her asking questions so I got an '09 Yaris instead. The Yaris was only slightly less and it doesn't have MANY of the nice options the smart has.

Originally Posted by Critical Thinker

4- Ride comfort - My time in a smart was limited, but it was definitely not what I consider a comfortable ride.

compared to what? Compared to my other cars it seems fine. BTW, I live a few miles back on a dirt road complete with the washboard effect. I guess the ride is an opinion thing.

Safety.....I supposed I do have a deathwish. One of my cars is complete with a wooden floor with 450hp. Soon I will be building a car done up straight for mileage. It will have a diesel engine powered by waste vegetable oil and essentially just a chassis with minimal body panels. (a kit car)

[Big Panda]

Back to the topic of this thread, I still think the person that eventually died in this accident should be considered. Yes, they didn't die immediately 'at the scene', but several weeks later from a brain aneurysm. Who could have known.

The thing is that someone passed from this accident and we're debating if someone should buy a smart because it's cute or not. Something just isn't right about that.

[Kermit]

Originally Posted by Big Panda

Back to the topic of this thread, I still think the person that eventually died in this accident should be considered. Yes, they didn't die immediately 'at the scene', but several weeks later from a brain aneurysm. Who could have known.

The thing is that someone passed from this accident and we're debating if someone should buy a smart because it's cute or not. Something just isn't right about that.

Whoa - I missed that the person from the 2 truck smart wreck later died. Never even saw that.

[John_H]

I haven't read the following posts yet, forgive me if I double-post.

Originally Posted by Critical Thinker

1- Fuel economy - while the smart is definitely considered economical as compared to the average car, there are other vehicles out there that are more economical, while offering other advantages as well.

Only hybrids and diesels get better fuel economy for production cars sold in the US. Given the higher price for both those options, the smart was recently shown as the lowest total cost of ownership of the cars surveyed. It's been discussed here with links to the study/article (I forget which).

Originally Posted by Critical Thinker

2- Utility - Speaking of other advantages, the smart has very little room for cargo.

I just hauled a wet saw from Home Depot. This is a big piece! The 40" length, 23" width, and 22" height (I measured to make sure it would fit) got into the smart fine leaving more than half the rear storage area still open for use. These things are seriously usable. No, I can't haul plywood sheets. I'm willing to rent the store's truck for the really big stuff rather than drive such a vehicle regularly.

Originally Posted by Critical Thinker

3- Price - Sure, the smart is not expensive, but again there are other cars that are just as inexpensive or even less expensive out there that don't have some of the disadvantages of the smart.

Again, for the total cost of ownership - which includes fuel over several years - the Smart comes in better than those cheaper varieties over the long haul. Speaking of hauling, many smart owners have a 1000lb hitch for light towing capacity.

Originally Posted by Critical Thinker

4- Ride comfort - My time in a smart was limited, but it was definitely not what I consider a comfortable ride.

The ride is not agreeable to everyone, especially depending on local roads. The shorter wheel base is responsible for much of that. The ride was too "sloshy" for me so it was a month or two before I got springs to stiffen the ride. It's now much more reminiscent of my Z4 roadster's feel - again, something that doesn't appeal to everyone.

Originally Posted by Critical Thinker

So when you add it all up, I just don't see the attraction to a small car that is economical, but not as economical as other small cars that offer more utility, a better ride, all at a price equal or lower to the smart.

That may be how you view things, but you don't see the smart in the same light as the owners which is fine. It's just enough car for me and I'm one that doesn't like outright waste if I can avoid it so it resonates with me on that level. The fact that it has such well designed safety features (while weighing about the same as the Chevy Vega I had in my early years) is a superb bonus.

I own a car where a severe rear-ending is designed to shove the engine under the car, quite different than the land-boat I heard that hit a moose and ended up with the engine between driver and passenger!! If I get T-boned, there's no chance the middle of my car will sandwich between the wheels because the wheel base is too narrow - the other driver will hit an axle or be darned well near it. The square tube steel internal door structure offers significantly better protection for those kinds of accidents compared to typical sheet metal frames, unibody or ladder frame.

I wonder sometimes why other people make the choices they do - choices I would not make myself. But I don't hang out in a gay bar, for instance, to try to engage people to understand them better. I'll never truly "get" it, so should I try to engage them further?

----------
Late entry: the item I referred to came from cars.com where the smart has the best "bang for the buck." The gasoline autos are compared in one list, hybrids in another. I didn't go back to figure if diesel was excluded.

Also, as for the Smart not being the best of the various items you listed, why would anyone buy a hamburger? It's not the best meat, not the best value in meat, certainly not the most nutritious, and it doesn't have any real appeal to discerning palates. It's certainly not the safest meat to consume!! Think of all those recalls. So why?

Choice is about balance, isn't it? Choose the optimum balance of all the features that are important to you.

[NukleoN]

Why is this forum so heavy-handed in deleting posts ?

I belong to several forums on several interests and I have NEVER seen the amount of editing done by moderators as this forum. I assumed the job of moderators was to delete profanity, racial slurs, etc., not randomly delete posts simply because they can or personal dislike of what was said.

I enjoy this site a lot, there is a ton of information shared here, but the level of censorship is tainting my level of trust.

I have debated this, been called a troll (yay, pro-smart trolls!) and been put on ignore (by a few) for this. It's one of the worst things about this site, and if it happens to this thread it will be very unfortunate.

Admins don't bother to respond to me, even the supporting vendor program, yet some admins find time to lock and delete threads which we collectively invest time and content to.

If one is too sensitive to partake in a real debate (not just about smart cars), then one can simply go elsewhere. There's no reason to shoo the atheist out of the church of smart or pretend dissent doesn't exist. If we protest too much, it looks like we've got something to hide. However, the facts are in our favor and there's a lot of misconception about this car. We should expect some dissent, and be ready to deal with it.

Let the people speak their minds, and let those who will address them do so. If someone disagrees and follows forum protocol, let them! The odd skeptic is outnumbered so it's not like we have a difficult time addressing misconceptions because at least one of us can cut and paste facts regarding a claim.

CT is by no means a troll. He's a reasonable guy, with reasonable views on risk/reward relative to his age and experience, and he's taken time to address almost everyone who has typed anything to him. Assuming there's no obfuscation of fact, it really just comes down to opinion. We've proven that in this very thread, as CT has been forthcoming with his claims being centered around his reasonable assessment of his personal risk/reward, and that's his perogative.

He chooses also not to ride a motorcycle, I do ride one. There's nothing I would do to try to convince him because if he got injured, guess who would feel bad? Me. Likewise, if someone feels less 'safe' in a smart for reasons real or imagined, that's fine. Once the facts are laid-out, the rest is opinion and have to recognize it as such.

If someone doesn't instantly love the smart, they may just have a different standard about cars they drive, and that's ok. I think most of us love the smart from first glance...and the fact that it had an engine sealed the deal. ;) Yes, it's an exaggeration, but we who love the smart know what I mean. Some people love the smart, some hate it and others will be somewhere else in the scale. It's ok.

I've enjoyed this thread. Healthy debate is fine (and if it's not healthy for you, don't read it). I am far more galled by locked and deleted threads with reasonable dissent (you know, actual points) than I am the debates themselves. The antics of heavy-handed moderators will definitely drive people away and I think it's bad for the site, the members and the advertisers.

We should strive to welcome the odd naysayer and actually address his points. Facts should be clear, opinion should be recognized and left as such, just like we did with CT here.

On a personal note, I am an atheist and skeptic, and I am used to being mistreated, faced with unquestioning dogma, misconceptions, unmitigated hostility and/or censored. Being outnumbered doesn't make the me or any dissenter wrong, and being afraid of dissent or censoring it doesn't make the majority right. I guess I'm a proponent of healthy debate and following the facts where they lead and I apply it to the smart like I attempt to apply it everywhere in life. In many ways being an out-of-the-closet atheist prepared me well for being a smart owner, and let me tell you, being a smart owner is WAY easier. ;)

I don't aim to discuss religion here (the thread would probably be deleted anyway) and I don't want to threadjack, I am just giving people some perspective on why I am so pro-naysayer and why I believe healthy, reasonable debate is not just good for the smart but good in general.

Without proper questions from those who doubt, we'd not have the impetus to go over crash tests, answer objections, clear misconceptions, educate or share our enthusiasm. Not everyone will agree, but I think these honest discussions have real value on this board.