I believe the G forces are what gets you in a collision more than just about anything else.
Jumping off a building isn't what kills you. It's the sudden stop at the end that does it every time. Or something like that.
Did you even read what I typed? Last time I checked G-forces don't kill you as much as the other vehicle's bumper intruding into your car. And for those G-forces cars like the smart are equipped with seat belts with tensioners and force limiters. Then they add even more protection with side and front airbags...
So I'm pretty sure the G-force thing is all taken care of...
Did you understand anything else I posted?
Quote:
"a fascination with the reasoning behind people's decisions to buy this microcar they call the smart. For so many reasons, I just don't get it."
Now I don't understand you here. To start we call the smart a "smart" because that's the company and that's the car.
Our decisions to consider buying the car was based on our understanding of the car. The smart has proven itself for a good eleven years. Some of smart's vehicles have been less successful when it came to buyers but they know what they're doing. Sure, the ride may not be the most comfortable or it might be a little bone jarring but don't question the safety. If you actually took the time to even look at the links the other members posted you'll see that the car can hold its own.
Now I'm not saying that the car defies the laws of physics nor am I defending the smart because there's nothing to defend it from. Sure, it's bound to happen; a fatal crash. It probably has happened to about every vehicle model in the world, including your SUV.
Bottom line, you have nothing to complain about. Maybe you can complain about a slow gearbox and that's about it.
Maybe I should go onto a SUV forum and find out why one would consider buying such a monstrosity of a vehicle. They provide nothing but extra space.
In fact, I want you to visit this site and tell all of us what most SUVs rank in safety
Do you think if I went over to a Toyota forum and questioned the reliability of Toyota vehicles I'd be getting similar responses to those in this thread?
Actually, yes I do think you'd get a similar response. Have you done this kind of thing on other automotive boards?
Sor some, the forum is a way to figure out if the smart is something they'd like to purchase. For others, it's a place to routinely exchange information and know all the ins and outs about the cars; not everybody contributes, but many have profited from this exchange. Most of the people who are active in this thread are on this forum regularly - there's more of a passing interest in the smart for us. Because we like our cars enough to be interfacing with other owners regularly, the smart is more a "part of the family" than a rudamentary piece of technology.
I don't go to computer forums. I put together my latest PC with some decent bells and whistles. I could care less if someone thinks Intel is for the birds or hates Microsoft (I don't care for them either).
I do care about my car.
And so do those who frequent the Toyota forums.
Why are Ford and Chevy drivers so passionate about their brands that they're always putting the opposite owners down? It's human nature when you care about something.
I got my car for my reasons. You won't get a smart for your reasons. Our priorities are simply different. It takes all kinds.
Ya know, just the fact that so many of you are so defensive when someone questions the safety of the smart makes me wonder what you must REALLY think. That in itself speaks volumes as far as I'm concerned.
Do you think if I went over to a Toyota forum and questioned the reliability of Toyota vehicles I'd be getting similar responses to those in this thread? I think not. If people are secure in their beliefs, then there's no reason to lash out at all. Most people would probably ignore the thread and move on to another instead. That said, I think there's more to this than many of you care to admit.
This isn't about mere belief or dogma. The facts surrounding the smart's safety have been published for all to see, by engineers who have done far more testing than anyone here. The NHTSA rated the smart a 3 out of 5, 4/5 and 5/5 in their crash tests, and the IIHS rated the car 'good'. Unless you know something the engineers don't, I'd go with what the people who actually test these cars are saying about them. Until you make a case which describes specific weaknesses the smart has which contradicts the engineers findings, I'd say you're just reacting with a gut-feeling based on the relative size of the vehicle.
Not sure what you're on about, but the smart has done well on safety tests so far, and has many safety innovations such as the Tridion safety cell, 4-airbags and Electronic Stability Program. What more do you want, 24-hour armed guards?
You mentioned that your friend, a female, was 'afraid' to drive the smart and sold it. This is irrational fear and not a compelling case. There are females (and others) who were afraid to drive Honda Civics, or small SUV's like the CR-V and opted for gigantic SUV's that nobody can see around, and then proceed to drive as if an accident is inevitable. I am not a fatalist. I don't believe an accident is unavoidable, though sometimes they end up being just that. But, I am a motorcycle riders and I am well-trained in avoiding bad situations which form up around other vehicles.
So anyone who challenges the obvious group-think here is a troll? I was hoping for more intelligence than that here....
I don't agree with that. Hell I got called a troll and put on ignore by some and I own a smart. What was the argument about? Taking on naysayers. Interesting.
I don't see that you're treating anyone badly or acting outside the rules of the forum, so there's nothing to fear here and I hope the moderators stay hands off while this conversation ensues. Your arguments can be taken on their merits and can be effectively and easily rebutted. You might have good points here and there, but we'll see when you make some actual good points. Remember, sometimes it's just preference. Hopefully we can recognize the difference between a real argument against the smart and a simple difference in preference.
Simply because we outnumber you doesn't make us right, but just because you're outnumbered doesn't mean we're wrong....we know the fallacy of the argument from popularity right?
My contention is that I don't think the engineers who conduct the crash tests are lying to us, but the sheer size of the car scares people. You have to understand, we get a LOT of ignorant people cycling through, talking about the smart being a deathtrap, citing false pictures which depict a crushed smart (usually not a smart) and acting like complete, ignorant and uninformed buffoons. If you're truly a critical thinker, you will consider all the facts and when you're called out on a point that you're wrong about, accept it and move on. Likewise, we should do the same.
Now, please make a *specific* claim and corroborate your assertion with data about the smart. Otherwise, it's just an opinion or preference, but we should not mistake that for any real threat to data we have already.
You're probably forgetting that there are other tiny cars around, and some people like myself actually ride motorcycles too *gasp*. Would you rail against the riding of motorcycles simply because it can be catastrophic if we're in an accident with almost any other vehicle on the road? If have actually fallen off my bike on a freeway at 70 mph (mechanical failure I think), slid along in full leathers, got right up and went to work the next day, while some people die in single-vehicle car accidents. Ok sure, luck has something to do with it, but I was also positioned in such a way that I wasn't near other vehicles. The way you drive a vehicle, any vehicle, has a lot do with avoiding accidents in the first place.
Accidents are a risk we take in our chosen transporation, but I would never relingquish the right to ride a motorcycle or drive a smart simply because someone *else* has an irrational (or rational) fear. Believe me, most people won't dare ride a motorcycle, but the joy of riding one is worth the risk in my opinion, and the gas and time-savings are incredible in California as we can use the carpool lane and lane-split.
What is your proposal, that we not drive smarts because you're afraid we'll die? With that logic, would you also disallow someone from riding a motorcycle or splitting lanes as we do in California? Where does safety Fascism end and the rights of the individual begin?
Your generalized fear-mongering so far seems vacuous, so please make a specific case or we can safely say you're just voicing an opinion.
So, this thread contains some awesome statistics, thanks BobDiaz. I will reference them often (giving credit to the source, of course).
To get back to Critical Thinker's quest, "a fascination with the reasoning behind people's decisions to buy this microcar they call the smart. For so many reasons, I just don't get it."
When I am faced with a similar dilemma, to the point of belaboring the data I have (be it for work, family, or science), I have a colleague who always sets me back onto a more productive path. For Critical Thinker, what would be hiswords of wisdom?
They just do, so get over it already...
In my words, you have reached what I call the Threshold of Human Comprehension for this subject.
Exactly. And at the same time, don't expect everyone to subscribe to YOUR choices either.
In case you haven't noticed, we're not on your SUV board espousing the fallacies of driving an SUV. So who is pushing who to subscribe to a different set of choices? I didn't join an SUV board, bash SUVs, and attempt to evangelize those woefully ignorant drivers of something different than I drive.
And, lest you think I'm a tree hugging, gas sipping kind of guy, I also drive a Nissan Frontier 4WD NISMO Crew Cab that will be pulling a 5,000 lb manlift in the next couple weeks. I have the truck because I need one periodically. Because the truck consumes half of my garage, the smart is the only production vehicle that will fit in my other garage bay with a Polaris Ranger 4x4 and a Kubota 4x4 diesel tractor. There is nothing wrong with a truck or an SUV (loved my previous Jeep Liberty Renegade at Camp Jeep), but I feel no need to hunt down Honda Fit, Hyundai Accent, Toyota Yaris, or smart drivers so I can belittle their choices and educate them about the error of their ways. I just hope the truck/SUV owner uses the truck/SUV for more than a cushy security blanket.
I also drive 75 miles a day with my wife commuting to work. I don't need a 4WD crew cab truck that gets 19 mpg to drive that distance and haul two people back and forth to work and the truck is big and boring. Sure, I could afford it, but the truck is for utility, the smart is for fun and economy. The smart is 3 months younger than the truck and has over 20,000 miles on the ODO - the truck just turned over 12,000. Of course, some of that smart mileage was racked up in 1,500 mile plus road trips where I didn't think a moment about an accident on I-95 around DC or I-75 around Atlanta.
Obviously, you have some type of inferiority complex and feel the need to push others to adopt your choices and are not man/woman enough to feel comfortable with your own choices. You're wasting my time and yours. Cheers.
As far as CT being a troll. Yes, troll like mannerisms have been shown BUT I must commend him for keeping his opinions strictly to this thread. He hasn't run all over the forum replying to every thread saying how he thinks the smart is unsafe.
Now, what I DID fail to see is CT mentioning specifically what he drove. I have a feeling he knows we could easily dig up all kinds of fatalities that are a result of his vehicle of choice. He has obviously shown his opinion....what he thinks...but doesn't have any hard facts on WHY the smart is so unsafe yet we've returned with total # of vehicles sold versus confirmed fatalities which is a relatively small percentage. His friend sold her smart because she felt unsafe in it and that is OK. My mother was riding shotgun in my father's smart last week and had a Harley pass them, when he passed he shook his head in a way that could easily be interpreted as "What a deathtrap". So every person has their own point of view/opinion.
Everything is dangerous. Golf for example has quite a few fatalities every year. While an alligator coming out of a pond and attacking someone is unlikely, it has happened. Lightning on average produces about 2 fatalities a year. Now how many other people just have heart attacks while golfing? Choke on a hot dog from the hot dog cart? How about accidentally getting hit in the head with a stray golf ball? Maybe hit with a club? So personally, I'll never play golf unless I have a death wish.
In the end, CT has his opinion and it isn't going to change no matter how much factual data can be produced to combat his armchair engineer opinion.
As far as CT being a troll. Yes, troll like mannerisms have been shown BUT I must commend him for keeping his opinions strictly to this thread. He hasn't run all over the forum replying to every thread saying how he thinks the smart is unsafe.
True, he's more of a crypto-troll, somewhat passive-aggressive, like this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Critical Thinker
Anyway, that's really the reason I came here...to better understand what exactly attracts people to this car.
He's already gotten his answer, several times. Truth is, there's no answer he's going to like, he made up his mind before he got here. People engage in thousands of "unsafe" behaviors every day, including him by some standards, and most people figure out from childhood that other people are different and move on. (IIRC, the typical age for such discretion is 4 or 5).
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