Horses for courses, as the Brits say. And please dial back the rhetoric a bit - no need for mud slinging on here. We're all smart enthusiasts or we wouldn't be here.
I have never heard a 450 owner refer to his/her car as the real one and the 451 as a copy.
[snip]
Strange, I haven't seen the roadster or the fourfour trashed on this club, only the 450.
I ran into a guy who referred to his 450 as a "real" smart and the 451 as an "imitation". It was in Winnipeg, and it was a bit tongue-in-cheek. Then I told him what it cost to get a converted 450, and he understood why I was waiting for the 451.
Oh, and I've bashed the forfour (I think it's rather ugly) - but only recently, so I'm not dinging you, just informing.
The biggest problem with 450s is service and parts; smart USA hasn't said if they'll get parts for G&K converted cars - some of the dealerships have said they would, but there have also been uncommitteds.
Personally, I really like some of the interior quirkiness in the 450, and I miss the gas mileage. But unless you have a G&K dealer nearby, chances are getting parts will be a longer and more expensive process than the 451, and since it's going to be my primary car, a 450 is not going to be a sensible option, unless you have a spare auto in your garage (I don't).
The 451 fit and finish IMBO is better than the "Americanized" 450. Better radio, they factory radios were removed in the 450s. However, the new 451 is not quite as quirky in interior design. The 450 does not have a glove box. The transmission seems much more refined in the 451 than the old one. You have to drain the oil in the 450 with a pump unless a drain plug was retrofitted on the oil pan. Numerous changes were made to the exhaust system by G&K to bring it into compliance, they made changes to the computer chip to reduce emissions. Bars were welded into the door frames to beef up crash protection, padded headliners were put in the roofs covering up the sunroofs removing the movable shades. Fueling pipe had to be changed making it hard to fill up at the pump (it clicks off very easily).
Our mileage on the cross country rally was running 40-43 MPG, mostly at high freeway speeds.
All these changes added thousands to the cost of the vehicle, local dealers then added additional thousands of profit, resulting in the inflated prices you see on the road today.
Your choice. A car made from the ground up to be sold in the USA, or one converted by a shop in California.
This all refers to the USA "Americanized" cars by G&K, not the Canadian diesels imported by smart.
Remains to be seen how the smart brand fares in the USA. Having spent an inordiant amout of time at the dealership the last few days, most of the people coming through the door had "zero" idea how the system worked. One 1173 contacted "oh don't want somthing until spring now" on the dealers walls a poster telling you how the body panels are powder coated, an other how the primary colors black, yellow and white are water based paint... There is lots of bad information making the rounds glad i got one wish the company all the best but they have a long way to go yet.
Karl
Many of the 450 G&K owners got their cars in 2006, which was before Daimler-Chrysler decided that they would design and introduce their next generation smart fortwo for the US market. IMHO, they waited to see how the converted models were accepted first before jumping on the bandwagon.
I am happy with my 450 that we bought in March 2006. I am 500 miles from my G&K dealer, but that has not been an issue since I have serviced it myself, and a local European car shop has looked at the car and said they could work on it. But so far (knock on wood), I have not needed any service beyond oil changes and an AC recharge, both which I did myself. I have 12000 miles on the odometer now.
Had I known then that the 451 model would be released to the US in 2008, I probably still would have bought the 450 that I have. I have had it now for almost 2 years and have enjoyed every minute of it. I have had several great cars in the past, including a 1968 Shelby GT-500KR Mustang, and I have had more attention given to this car by onlookers than any other vehicle. I have shown it at a few local car shows and it gets more attention than most other vehicles. If you have seen some of the earlier advertisements for the smart where all you see is a bunch of people surrounding the car, then you know what I mean.
IMHO, they waited to see how the converted models were accepted first before jumping on the bandwagon.
Tom
the actual number of those cars (450) that are here legally is much too low for them to get any type of read on the acceptance. and remember, DC had nothing to do with importing the car that you have and in reality probably would not even have access to any numbers. the decision came down to either kill the Smart brand altogether or bring the car up to US spec and see if the US market can save it. to this point, it appears very positive. Without the US market, the brand would like be sold or killed and IMO may still be sold off in the future once the US base is established.
Here are the number of converted 450's officially in the US (this does not include the 2002 and 2003 smarts that were here for a few years in ZAP's control).
Warranty for most cars (non-ZAP cars) was written by ACSC of Huntsville Alabama. Most common warranty is 4yr/50,000 miles. Third party warranty company for over 25 years. Warranty written so that car can be repaired in any geographical location in country where a mechanic wants to work on the car. Mechanic is paid directly by warranty company, owner does not front the money. If you have a question on this warranty, call Jim Duffy at ACSC, tollfree, at 800-824-7059. We are contacted regularly by garages, mechanics and insurance companies and provide contacts for parts in Canada, Mexico and England, though the value of the dollar to the British pound make England the last choice. Parts ship in a few days. G&K does have parts as well and can ship to the location in need. There are some Mercedes shops that are and have been repairing the 450's for a couple years. A Mercedes dealership apparently has the option to work on a car or not work on it to make money. Some choose to work on them. We help them find the parts if they can't find them. Hope this answers some of the questions in this thread. I am a full supporter and reservation holder for the 451. We need to root for the brand to make it folks.
depends on where you are located. SmartUSA will not support or service these vehicles so figure that into the cost. also, that 55mpg number was based on the old math, that number has come down with the new math.
what makes you think the MB motor is so much better than the Mits? name only? if the motor was superior, we probably would have that motor in our cars. something to think about.
personally, i think you'd be crazy to buy a grey market car with no support stateside. but that's just me.
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