when you take an orphan, you decide to take an available car now instead of waiting. in my world, that would mean that you no longer get the other one.
I do not agree that someone who paid $99 to configure and order a smart should be penalized for buying an orphan to tide him/her over. Now if he flips the new smart car for a profit when it comes in, count me in on the lynching party. But if he sells the orphan at a fair price (not inflated price), more power to him.
I think that you should save your condemnation for the speculators and flippers who bought a smart fortwo solely to sell it at an inflated price.
Exactly! I am not trying to make a profit either.
I just hear how bad people want these things and its not really true.
Car markets are highly regionalized and demand is not the same in all parts of the country - you have to rely on someone in your area (~50 mile diameter) seeing your ad, wanting the car, and not finding a better option in the market. I paid 15,800 for my Passion (pre-tax) - why would I pay close to that for a Pure? Its generally harder to sell a base model as well - even one that has been loaded up to the same level as a higher trim model.
There probably is not the same demand for smarts where you are compared to New York or San Francisco. Also, the initial wave of demand has partially subsided as a lot of the early adopters and enthusiasts have taken delivery or are close (I'm assuming that most in this category reserved their place in line in early 2007). You probably stood a better chance of a quick sale for MSRP or better in March/April/May than you do now.
Try eBay and Craigslist for a quick sale but you may have to take a loss. Cars are depreciating assets afterall... unless you hold them for decades and they become classics/rare.
a $15,000 pure isn't a bargain IMHO.
i hope this happens to everyone who buys an orphan while keeping their reservation intact.
i think the whole flipping thing is risky, unethical and immoral. certainly legal - but don't whine to me when the risk becomes too great and bites you on the ass.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rawlus®
personally, i just think that you should have to forfeit your place in line if you take delivery on an orphan today. it'd be nice if the seedier, greedier profit-side of things didn't always have to creep and crawl in.
when you make a reservation, you're waiting for a car to become available, presumably because you want a car, not because you want to make a quick buck. when you take an orphan, you decide to take an available car now instead of waiting. in my world, that would mean that you no longer get the other one.
i realize i don't have control over that.
and that it's a capitalistic society.
i just wasn't brought up that way.
You were brought up to believe that what this person is trying to do is "unethical and immoral. certainly legal..."
You were brought up to believe that what this person is trying to do is "unethical and immoral. certainly legal..."
Is that really what you meant to say?
I am sure glad I am not in business with this guy: he seems to think profit is a dirty word. I guess he thinks we all work for the government or some kind of charity. Unless he has figured out how a non-profitable business can keep paying it's employees......
Explain to me again how earning money by buying low and selling high is a bad thing?
i think flipping orphans is, while legal, unethical and immoral.
flipping orphans, by my definition, is buying an orphan then selling in in a very short time period to take delivery on either another orphan or your originally-reserved car.
thankfully i can condemn all i want. i think the practice is sleezy and i think smartusa mis-stepped in the contract stage with both consumers and dealers in not figuring that sleezy people would look to exploit the system for their own personal gain at the expense of others time and energy... penske should have required forfeiture of a reservation in order to take delivery of an orphan. that would be the fair way of handling it.
if you make a reservation at a restaurant @ 9pm. but show up three hours early and happen to get an available table. are you the type of person that will still hold that later reservation for the sole purpose of depriving someone of an opportunity just like the one you took advantage of? do you need two dinners? are you that greedy?
I am sure glad I am not in business with this guy: he seems to think profit is a dirty word. I guess he thinks we all work for the government or some kind of charity. Unless he has figured out how a non-profitable business can keep paying it's employees......
Explain to me again how earning money by buying low and selling high is a bad thing?
do you define a non-profitable business as a car owner who cannot get the price he wants on a car?
i merely suggested that a little suffering go with the impatience of buying something on impluse because you can't wait like everyone else and then complaining because you can't flip it in 24 hours so you can get your second shot at the same something. either wait your turn or forfeit your turn and get something sooner.
i don't care for the "cake and eat it too" types.
has nothing to do with business or profit or gov't jobs or charities.
i think flipping orphans is, while legal, unethical and immoral.
flipping orphans, by my definition, is buying an orphan then selling in in a very short time period to take delivery on either another orphan or your originally-reserved car.
thankfully i can condemn all i want. i think the practice is sleezy and i think smartusa mis-stepped in the contract stage with both consumers and dealers in not figuring that sleezy people would look to exploit the system for their own personal gain at the expense of others time and energy... penske should have required forfeiture of a reservation in order to take delivery of an orphan. that would be the fair way of handling it.
So, in your opinion, how long must a rightful owner own a car before selling it is no longer unethical or immoral? Or is it down to mileage? Or if a person gets a door ding on a new car that they own, can they sell it sooner? Or if they price it for what YOU think is fair, then can they sell it any time? What are the rules in your world?
Quote:
Originally Posted by rawlus®
if you make a reservation at a restaurant @ 9pm. but show up three hours early and happen to get an available table. are you the type of person that will still hold that later reservation for the sole purpose of depriving someone of an opportunity just like the one you took advantage of? do you need two dinners? are you that greedy?
Yeah, well I would only hold on to my reserved table if I expected to be using it 3 hours later.
Let's say I went to a day-long event - sports or music or whatever. I have a front row ticket for the 7:00 portion of the show, but I want to check out what's happening at noon. I get down there and as luck would have it I'm able to buy a seat (way in the back, perhaps) for the noon event. When 7:00 comes along am I sleezy and greedy for moving up to my reserved seat in the front row?
Tell me again that you were raised to believe this is right thinking and I'll excuse it.
personally, i just think that you should have to forfeit your place in line if you take delivery on an orphan today. it'd be nice if the seedier, greedier profit-side of things didn't always have to creep and crawl in.
when you make a reservation, you're waiting for a car to become available, presumably because you want a car, not because you want to make a quick buck. when you take an orphan, you decide to take an available car now instead of waiting. in my world, that would mean that you no longer get the other one.
i realize i don't have control over that.
and that it's a capitalistic society.
i just wasn't brought up that way.
I am not trying to make a quick buck. I am selling it for what I paid for it!
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