Why Cars Don't Get 50mpg

[MicroNut]

There is an interesting article in Newsweek about gas mileage:

http://www.newsweek.com/id/130439/page/1

It discusses the challenges auto makers face in developing cars that can achieve (or even beat) 50mpg. Sadly, it contains the usual derogatory comments about the smart (it was written by a journalist after all, and we know they just can't resist), but it also contains this interesting paragraph about Toyota's future plans:

"...And Toyota is in the midst of creating an entire lineup of Prius models, which will include a wagon, a family car and a tiny urban runabout beginning in 2010. So if you take the Prius power plant and put it into a Smart-size car, what do you get? Toyota isn't saying, but there could be a hint in Reinert's assessment of Mercedes's mighty mite. "The Smart is incredibly attractively packaged," he says. "It could be the iPhone version 1 of cars." Version 2.0 could roll into a Toyota showroom in a few years—with a window sticker well above 50mpg. And not a moment too soon."

(Bill Reinert is Toyota's national manager of advanced technologies)

I'm guessing that this is not the iQ he's refering to, but a completely new hybrid microcar. That should be one interesting ride...

[LorbeerTLC]

After seeing the DVD, "Who Killed the Electric Car?" I find it very hard to trust GM. The EV-1 was successful according to their owners and people wanted more. Rather than go into what happened, if you have yet to see this DVD, go out and rent it. It's very sobering.

-Tom L.

[E-SMART]

(got to love Netflix!) anyway, out here in the midwest we didn't of course get any EV-1's but I do remember seeing them on visits out west. Perhaps this time once gas gets above $4 (or even $5) a gallon there will be 'enough is enough' for at least as long as it takes some brave mfg to produice these at a price and in numbers for them to take hold!

[Karl Roth]

We consumers are what ultimately drives what is available. Look at what Honda and Toyota sell us here in America verses what the folks in Japan buy.
It is us with our checkbooks that drive the train if you think that is a conspiracy well you can it is a free country after all. We buy more trucks than cars, the typical $28k machine is geared toward performance rather than economy. Must be the way we want things.
karl
people buy what works for them. 50% of city cars where electric at the beginning of the auto era the gas powered stuff worked better then and it does now. Want to be a millionaire? produce one that works.

[LorbeerTLC]

Originally Posted by Karl Roth

We consumers are what ultimately drives what is available. Look at what Honda and Toyota sell us here in America verses what the folks in Japan buy.
It is us with our checkbooks that drive the train if you think that is a conspiracy well you can it is a free country after all. We buy more trucks than cars, the typical $28k machine is geared toward performance rather than economy. Must be the way we want things.
karl
people buy what works for them. 50% of city cars where electric at the beginning of the auto era the gas powered stuff worked better then and it does now. Want to be a millionaire? produce one that works.

Karl,
I thought exactly the same way... until I saw that DVD. I ask you to watch it too. Listen to the Executives at GM in the DVD that were responsible in marketing the EV-1. It's amazing! Coming right from the horse's mouth. It was the cars success that killed it. GM had never intended the car to be such a hit with its owners. They thought it wouldn't sell because you had to plug it in. They were wrong, so they killed it before it got out of hand.
This is a documentary about the EV-1 with some GM employees and upper-managers interviewed. You draw your own conclusions at the end of the video.

[jayhead000]

Well for me the whole reason i am buying a Smart and straying from my Toyota roots is because they are too scared to release their "Smart Type" vehicle, and/or a sport vehicle! Give me one or the other! honestly! I was really disappointed to see that the yaris was not a hybrid, and was a little disappointed that the new EPA standards knocked the mileage down that much. I am too cool for school to get a Prius, so the Smart is a great alternative. I am sure it will be a while before they release iPhone version 2.0, seeing how none of their hybrid concepts have really made it to the mass market. I think the hybrid thing, and the Smart are really just bridges, and i choose to take the Smart bridge.

Any word on Smart micro hybrid drive in america? I would be interested in that!

[Karl Roth]

Originally Posted by LorbeerTLC

Karl,
I thought exactly the same way... until I saw that DVD. I ask you to watch it too. Listen to the Executives at GM in the DVD that were responsible in marketing the EV-1. It's amazing! Coming right from the horse's mouth. It was the cars success that killed it. GM had never intended the car to be such a hit with its owners. They thought it wouldn't sell because you had to plug it in. They were wrong, so they killed it before it got out of hand.
This is a documentary about the EV-1 with some GM employees and upper-managers interviewed. You draw your own conclusions at the end of the video.

I have seen it, Have you ever gotten a chance to drive an ev1 or any other pure electric out there money talks BS walks
karl

[LorbeerTLC]

Yes, and money was offered but refused. GM killed it anyway. No price was acceptable.

Anyway- didn't mean to hijack this post. I'll end it here.

-Tom L.

[rgaus]

Originally Posted by MicroNut

I'm guessing that this is not the iQ he's refering to, but a completely new hybrid microcar. That should be one interesting ride...

A brief review of the origins of this little car as proposed by Nicolas Hayek of Swatch. Hayek's goal from the very beginning was to make the smart a Hybrid. Mercedes, on the other hand, wanted nothing to do with the Hybrid. Hayek's choice: Agree to Mercedes decision, or look elsewhere for a partner. Hayek reluctantly gave up his quest for the Hybrid design, knowing that Mercedes was the best chance of getting his design to market. (Page 78, smart thinking, by Tony Lewin)

Still, in 1994, what a visionary Hayek must have been. Think what might have been if Mercedes had invested their engineering into the Hybrid design... what might have been!

Ron Gaus, asmartcar.com

[race911]

"Hybrid" or "EV" aren't just stickers you put on the side of a vehicle. How do you package it in this platform? Consider a Tesla v. the (more-or-less underlying) Elise. How many hundreds of pounds of batteries and attendant cooling?