why no turbo diesel

tyler drew · 12-19-2007, 05:22 AM

I've read that the only place to get the 70 mpg turbo diesel is in Canada,
WHY????????????

Old smart · 12-19-2007, 05:32 AM

The reason is very simple. The smart is physically too small to carry all the emissions equipment and aqueous urea tank needed to comply with U.S. EPA standards.

Even Canada now has to do without new diesels. The EU standards are presently lower, and some (not all) countries have them. The EU standards will get considerably tighter in the future.

The equipment required to be 50-state compliant involves two different catalytic converters (one for sulphur and one for NOx) and a particulate filter, plus the urea tank. The aqueous urea is injected into the exhaust stream at a ratio of 1:20 for each gallon of diesel oil burned. With the smart's 10-gallon tank (including the reserve) that means filling a 1/2-gallon urea tank at each fill-up. The "AdBlue" urea that M-B will use is a dealer service item; you won't find it at your local gas station. And it is 1/2 to 2/3 the cost of diesel oil, so that will affect your miles per dollar. Presently, and non-taxed, a US gallon of AdBlue in small quantities in the UK is about $4. A large car (like M-B's "E-Class") can hump all this stuff (and the wallet to go with it) around, but not a smart.

Toyota has been "toy"ing with a compact, dry system, but so far it seems to be a work-in-progress. It doesn't last very long before loosing its effectiveness and must be replaced. It also requires periodic shots of raw fuel to be injected into the exhaust stream, cutting fuel efficiency.

Some will speak of new VW TDI diesels. Right now it just the big Taureg, with a Jetta in '08. But they are only 43-state compliant as they only use a SOx cat and a particulate filter, not the additional NOx cat that M-B will use. The VW marketeers try not to advertize that too loudly. Obviously it would be dumb for smart to bring in a 43-state compliant car, leaving out two big parts of their market: CA, and NY and NE.

Gortok · 12-19-2007, 04:58 PM

But I thought the smart diesel was the cleanest in the world...??

spdickey · 12-19-2007, 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gortok

But I thought the smart diesel was the cleanest in the world...??

Still not clean enough for the 2010 EPA regs... here is some reading for you http://autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dll/ar...024/LATESTNEWS

Old smart · 12-19-2007, 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gortok

But I thought the smart diesel was the cleanest in the world...??

Maybe as far as the EU is concerned. But they are more concerned with CO2 emissions; for diesels in the U.S., the EPA is more concerned with SOx and NOx, thus the different standards.

**jwight** · 12-19-2007, 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fishrdnc

Maybe as far as the EU is concerned. But they are more concerned with CO2 emissions; for diesels in the U.S., the EPA is more concerned with SOx and NOx, thus the different standards.

That NOx my SOx off!

Carnut · 12-19-2007, 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fishrdnc

The reason is very simple. The smart is physically too small to carry all the emissions equipment and aqueous urea tank needed to comply with U.S. EPA standards.

Even Canada now has to do without new diesels. The EU standards are presently lower, and some (not all) countries have them. The EU standards will get considerably tighter in the future.

The equipment required to be 50-state compliant involves two different catalytic converters (one for sulphur and one for NOx) and a particulate filter, plus the urea tank. The aqueous urea is injected into the exhaust stream at a ratio of 1:20 for each gallon of diesel oil burned. With the smart's 10-gallon tank (including the reserve) that means filling a 1/2-gallon urea tank at each fill-up. The "AdBlue" urea that M-B will use is a dealer service item; you won't find it at your local gas station. And it is 1/2 to 2/3 the cost of diesel oil, so that will affect your miles per dollar. Presently, and non-taxed, a US gallon of AdBlue in small quantities in the UK is about $4. A large car (like M-B's "E-Class") can hump all this stuff (and the wallet to go with it) around, but not a smart.

Toyota has been "toy"ing with a compact, dry system, but so far it seems to be a work-in-progress. It doesn't last very long before loosing its effectiveness and must be replaced. It also requires periodic shots of raw fuel to be injected into the exhaust stream, cutting fuel efficiency.

Some will speak of new VW TDI diesels. Right now it just the big Taureg, with a Jetta in '08. But they are only 43-state compliant as they only use a SOx cat and a particulate filter, not the additional NOx cat that M-B will use. The VW marketeers try not to advertize that too loudly. Obviously it would be dumb for smart to bring in a 43-state compliant car, leaving out two big parts of their market: CA, and NY and NE.

C'mon Fish. Give us some details instead of terse generalities.

rgaus · 12-19-2007, 07:52 PM

I'm just a non-mechanical guy who fell in love with the smart two years ago, but I'm astounded at the intelligence on this and other forums. Thanks to all of you
"submitters" who share your knowledge with the rest of us. It enlarges the range of your intelligence as the information rings grow larger around this car, it's culture and it's history. This is a great thread!

Ron Gaus, aSmartCar.com

Lewis · 12-20-2007, 05:15 AM

I've rented the diesel Smart fortwo in Europe and the mileage it gets was astonishing- in the 70mpg range. But the FIAT PUNTO diesel I've also rented comes pretty darn close with a back seat and a real trunck (hatch). These eurodiesels are amazing vehicles and it's a pity we can't get them stateside.

Old smart · 12-20-2007, 06:12 AM

All vehicles are a compromise, and at some point we will have to decide what a chosen vehicle's primary characteristic is to be: "green," high-MPG, bush-whacker, low-expense, small size, big room, "cutsie" (dang!), "arrogant" (double-dang!!), trailer-hauler, etc. No vehicle can do many things very well.

For me, small size is the primary (I have but 9'-09" of un-obligated garage space to give a second car). Ultra-high mileage diesel performance in addition would be very nice, but I'll be happy just a high-mileage gasser so long as I retain the small size. "Green" - don't preach to me about contorting my personal existance to save the world as long as I see the the skies full of vapor trails instead of the country crossed by modern (electrified) high-speed rails. As the smart's relatively low fuel consumption somewhat equates to relatively low environmental impact, I'll let it go at that.

NOx-controlled diesels will eventually come to the U.S., but I don't think it will include smarts (lest they become something other than smarts). Hopefully the compact, dry, NOxTrap technology will develop into something, but right now it is only partially effective. Maybe the VW/Audi/M-B/BMW consortium will do better than Toyota has.