The guy you're talking about called me today and said pretty much the same thing quoted above. So I called the dealership and I had a long, very odd, conversation with the "general manager" there. Really quite a strange discussion. I'm not sure what he has against me, but he specifically states that SmartieParts cruise controls blow up cars (paraphrased and exaggerated).
I think he has only one case that he's going by. There was a gentleman in Seattle that installed one of the very first MDC units in North America (note: MDC is not the Area 451 unit!! The GM can't seem to understand that) and after 700 miles or so, it continued working but the car started giving error codes and misbehaving. Believe me, I hear when customers have problems! And that was the only one, so how the GM then goes and says (yes he said this to me) that "all SmartieParts cruise controls" wreck USA smart cars is beyond me. It was one unit, one car, one time. And on top of that, I just got confirmation today from the owner of that car that it was far from "wrecked"! He's probably coming to the Prosser event with me so all can be verified. In fact, nothing was wrong at all. Removed the cruise, and all was good. No damage. Nada.
Anyway, the GM came flat out and said he's going to turn people off the product and there really was no reasoning with that guy. He kept acting like I was asking him for sales or something, but I was just trying to clear up any misinformation. If he really is the GM there, I'm surprised. He didn't give his name so I have no way of verifying who he was really.
I'm willing to assume there was just a lot of misinformation and misunderstanding, but at this point I won't be doing any business with them and I'll warn anyone in the area to pay special attention if you go in there with warranty claims of any sort: remove your aftermarket accessories before going in! Some dealers have bad attitudes about it and don't understand the laws surrounding it, and this one so far seems particularly unreasonable. So do yourself a favor... understand how and what was installed on your car and be prepared to reverse it. Of course, this is only in the rare case you have a warranty issue that could be blamed on your aftermarket accessory. But they seem VERY intent on blaming first... truth seems very secondary.
- Steven
Last edited by SmartieParts; 09-09-2008 at 12:13 PM.
Reason: removed references to a 3rd party conversation
Would the real Ethan Smith, sign in please... In defense of Ethan, he has been bend-over-backwards helpful compared to other dealers in this start-up, by sharing information others would not, and trying to keep the have-nots happy.
It has probably been quite hectic for the sc Seattle, and maybe everywhere else, trying to field all the questions and concerns. But this response coming from them doesn't seem to square. Steven, I'm not doubting you a bit and it makes me wonder what would bring this type of reaction?
Are the dealers feeling threatened by aftermarket suppliers because, between that and scheduled maintenance, it's eating in to their only additional revenue stream? Did the dealers try to get exclusive rights to the Area 451 distribution and sales? Even so, smartUSA wasn't smart when they left out a cc option, and really shouldn't have a beef with someone who is meeting that need.
I hope seriously that Mr. Smith will re-think his view regarding warranty and aftermarket upgrades. And I hope he will explain this to the forum.
I will be going back up to smartcenter Seattle this week for issues with my heater, and to pick up the "goodies" for the rally if they have something ready for me. I will be talking to Ethan (if he's available) and to BJ about the Area 451 cruise control. I agree with smart fortimo....that just doesn't sound like Ethan. If it was Ethan that Steven was talking to, then I REALLY want to find out what the deal is before I have a cruise installed, because regardless of whether it's actually true or not, if THEY THINK it's true, that's where I have to have my service & warranty work done, and I'm not going to be removing anything before I take my car in. So....I feel like this is something that we really need to get resolved with Ethan or whoever represented himself as the GM, and I say that only because this STILL doesn't sound like the Ethan that I've dealt with for quite awhile now!
Thanks Marty, I guess we are all interested in why a dealer would make claims like this about an aftermarket product. As Steven has pointed out, only one customer was affected and with what sounds like, not the Area 451 Cruise Unit? "(note: MDC is not the Area 451 unit!! The GM can't seem to understand that)"
Steven - Can you tell us when this happened and the model of smart the unit was installed on? Were the issues resolved?
Dunno anything about the people in question and I'm waiting for my own Area 451 CC to arrive any day now, but perhaps everyone should take a deep breath and turn to page 7 of their smart USA Warranty Guide...
"A. Some Modifications Do Not Void the Warranties But Are Not Covered
Certain changes that you might make to your vehicle do not, by themselves, void the warranties described in this booklet. Examples of some of these changes are: installing non-smart USA parts, components, or equipment (such as a non-smart USA radio or speed control)..."
What needs to happen is to have dealers offer the Area 451 CC to their new car and existing customers. They can then offer an option that many would like to have, perhaps buy the product in bulk (benefiting the fine folks who spent so much time on this for us), then turn a profit on the sale and installation.
If I were a smart store GM, I'd be looking at the possibilities. Like, yesterday.
Win, win.
Arch
Last edited by Arch; 09-09-2008 at 12:11 PM.
Reason: typos
If your are interested or have your order in at SmartieParts, please add your name below. If there aren't 10 takers, this should not be construed as a commitment to buy at a later date.
I just finished writing a book trying to explain and clarify the strange conversation, facts, myths, etc. But instead I decided I should just answer questions.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dunerunner
Thanks Marty, I guess we are all interested in why a dealer would make claims like this about an aftermarket product. As Steven has pointed out, only one customer was affected and with what sounds like, not the Area 451 Cruise Unit? "(note: MDC is not the Area 451 unit!! The GM can't seem to understand that)"
Steven - Can you tell us when this happened and the model of smart the unit was installed on? Were the issues resolved?
It was a 2008 like yours. He's coming to the Prosser event where I'm going to ensure he has working cruise control for all his time pains. He purchased one of the very first MDC units. The first one was installed by Car Toys and was modified because they didn't seek clarification for the non-existent instructions (only had pictures with German notes). It didn't work. He bought a second one which I tested before shipping. it worked. 700 miles later, he had problems. The cruise still worked, but check engine light or some other issues (I don't have the details). He took it to the dealer in question. At that time, their tech called me and from our conversation we agreed it likely was not the cruise based on the symptoms and the fact the cruise was still working. However, in the end removing the cruise solved the problems. Whether defective part or poor install that wiggled loose... unknown. The "GM" stated to me in no uncertain terms that the car's electrical system was "destroyed". The customer, however, confirmed there was no damage at all - the cruise was removed and all was good. This is as expected.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigcritter
I will be talking to Ethan (if he's available) and to BJ about the Area 451 cruise control. I agree with smart fortimo....that just doesn't sound like Ethan. If it was Ethan that Steven was talking to, then I REALLY want to find out what the deal is before I have a cruise installed, because regardless of whether it's actually true or not, if THEY THINK it's true, that's where I have to have my service & warranty work done, and I'm not going to be removing anything before I take my car in. So....I feel like this is something that we really need to get resolved with Ethan or whoever represented himself as the GM, and I say that only because this STILL doesn't sound like the Ethan that I've dealt with for quite awhile now!
I can't say if it was Ethan or not. He did not identify himself audibly except to later clarify that he was the GM. Please keep in mind that SERVICE and WARRANTY are two different things! 90% of you will never have warranty work and that is the only time an issue can come up. Going in for service... no need to hide your modifications. It is important to understand that even though this "GM" throws the word "void" around loosely, even his explanation to me shows he has the gist of it correct. Your car's warranty is only "non applicable" IF the modification caused the problem. And that shouldn't be news to anyone. You absolutely should reverse any and all modifications you do to your car that may confuse the technicians while diagnosing the problem. Whether or not the part is at fault, the extra diagnostic efforts can't be covered by warranty. This is nothing new. This is for ALL cars, ALL modifications. You warranty can't be "void". It just doesn't apply to parts or work that weren't original equipment.
Quote:
Originally Posted by smart fortimo
Steven, I'm not doubting you a bit and it makes me wonder what would bring this type of reaction?
Your guess is as good as mine. He said his secretary and Arthur (who is a behind the scenes guy) at Area451 had a conversation and that Arthur was "rude" and made his "$9 an hour girl cry". I spoke with Arthur, who says, "huh?". Apparently the girl said the GM wasn't available and asked if she could help. He mentioned the cruise and she was aware of the policy and stated that "installing cruise will shut the car down". He said it wasn't the case and it was a civil discussion ending in "I'll get the manager to call you". After I told him what the "GM" said about upsetting her, he called back to apologize and she had no idea what he was talking about - that was a 3-way with me on the phone and no she didn't sound the least bit upset. HOWEVER, if he was on some gung-ho mission to defend his "$9 an hour girl"s honor then that's the only thing I can say that might explain the behavior and tone of the conversation. One thing I hadn't mentioned... for some reason, Arthur gave the girl my phone number. He says that was because he was heading out and I have all the info anyway and I'd be the one to call since "smartieparts" was directly mentioned as the offending supplier. The "GM" called me before I knew what had gone on and could only guess. So to his defense, the "GM" may have thought he was calling Arthur intent on telling him off for upsetting his secretary, which in itself is odd. Instead he got me. So perhaps he was just in "mad mode" but for some reason the conversation continued, indicating perhaps he wants correct information. But he just kept getting angry with me and I couldn't understand why... I was just explaining.
Quote:
Are the dealers feeling threatened by aftermarket suppliers because, between that and scheduled maintenance, it's eating in to their only additional revenue stream? Did the dealers try to get exclusive rights to the Area 451 distribution and sales?
I can't imagine. The "GM" did say that he was looking for a cruise that worked. I'd love to sell to dealers! So it ADDS to their revenue stream, rather than takes away from it. No, they hadn't tried to get exclusive rights... be clear, they had NEVER HEARD of Area451 before this strange conversation. He just doesn't seem to care about brands or origins, just that if I sell it that it's going to be trash talked.
Quote:
I hope seriously that Mr. Smith will re-think his view regarding warranty and aftermarket upgrades. And I hope he will explain this to the forum.
His view SHOULD be the same as corporate view, which should be exactly what the law provides. They offer a car with a warranty. Nothing more, nothing less. That warranty covers the original equipment and that's it. Anyone stating that installing an aftermarket part "voids" or somehow affects warranty, in of itself, is telling a falsehood. In our conversation, he dismissed my point as "semantics" when I asked him not to use the word "void". "Void" mean to cancel, to nullify or extinguish. That term means that if you install a cruise and your back right wheel falls off due to a defective bolt... tough petunias, you're screwed. Obviously not the case. An aftermarket part can't even "affect" a warranty. It is quite simple. The aftermarket part is covered by its own warranty (if any) and the car is covered by its warranty. Damage done by one to the other is the owner's responsibility because there is NEVER cross-warranty.
So with many things, it comes down to trust. In this case, do you trust that Area 451 Parts has done its job and created a part that will not damage your car? Do you trust the retailer (me) to take care of you as best I can if things go wrong? If yes, then buy. If no, then don't buy. If you want an iron-clad guarantee that nothing can possibly go wrong... then go back to the 30's when people didn't sue everyone for every little thing and they just did what was fair. (I used to sell time machines, but I'm sold out and it's a long waiting list)
I hope that clears some things up and it doesn't come off as being defensive. I understand some of you had positive dealings with that dealership and I'm very happy to hear that. My experience so far has been baffling. I'm open minded though.
Pardon the thread hijack while I mention that our Area 451 CC came in the mail today. So thanks again, Steven, and to all involved. Looking forward to the installation tomorrow.
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If it was Ethan that Steven was talking to, then I REALLY want to find out what the deal is before I have a cruise installed, because regardless of whether it's actually true or not, if THEY THINK it's true, that's where I have to have my service & warranty work done, and I'm not going to be removing anything before I take my car in. So....I feel like this is something that we really need to get resolved with Ethan or whoever represented himself as the GM, and I say that only because this STILL doesn't sound like the Ethan that I've dealt with for quite awhile now! 
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