Voided Warranty

[rawlus®]

i don't consider aftermarket-company-sponsored research factual unless backed up by a 3rd party source. actually, any company for that matter. OF COURSE K&N is going to say their filters are best. a doi.

i'll believe the "exceeded specifications" claim when it is the entity dictating the specifications (the factory engineers) making that claim.

call it what you will, less restriction, more airflow - the bottom line is they let more dust and dirt through than most paper element type filters. this information is relatively easy to find, though admittedly not as easy to find as the propoganda pages on aftermarket parts-manufacturer's websites.

case in point, smart specs a euro blend of motor oil, mobil 1, clearly one of the leading lubricants in a well-stocked field, it tests in the top of the range in independent tests. mobil will tell you it's the best oil available, but, independent tests are not too off from that so it's a pretty high quality oil, synthetic, etc. yet, we're supposed to believe they've also spec'd a sub-standard air filter not up to the task, because presumably the air the engine gets is not as important as the lubrication? my sense is that the air filter was designed to specific parameters to meet enginneer's requirements for performance, durability, filtration and restriction. K&N changes a flange on their filter, now they are "compatible", and their claims are "less restriction".

this assumes that the air intake system, as designed, is unduly restricted at the filter to begin with, and that, lessening that restriction causes performance gains that are worth the price of "upgrading" without sacrificing any of the other specifications like filtration for instance.

[xcrew229x]

If this car was indeed designed as a safety system, and you modify that system, you are defeating it. The sales staff at Easton alluded to the side impact arena, including that the wheels would likely take a good part of the hit in a side impact. That said, there seems to be a wide assortment of factory wheels used on other smarts that will bolt up. This looks like a great question for Kane.

[Smart Car Geek]

Originally Posted by rawlus®

less restriction, more airflow - the bottom line is they let more dust and dirt through than most paper element type filters.

That's speculation at best. Where is your documentation to back up that theory? Besides, anyone who knows engine design knows that airflow is not an issue, as decribed below:

An engine can only draw in a certain volume of air depending on the engine’s size (measured by such things as bore, stroke and number of cylinders). Vehicles are designed to accommodate large changes in air pressure so they can operate at sea level or at an altitude of 14,000 feet. Engine computers adjust the amount of fuel required as a result of changes in air pressure (density). Air filter restriction when the filter is new and especially as the filter loads with dust will result in lower air pressure and availability similar to being at a high elevation. High-flow air filters that were invented by K&N were designed to reduce the work necessary to pull air through the filter and to increase air pressure. Increased air pressure is one of the key elements in producing more power.

K&N filters were designed from the ground up for off-road racing so naturally they will filter better. The bottom line is that the better your car runs, the less gas it will waste, meaning you will get better miles per gallon. For example; my father and I have the same make/model/year of car. My car is slightly heavier because I have a moon roof in my car, so I should, if anything, get less MPG than he does, but that's not the case. He buys standard (fram) paper filters and uses standard oil. I use K&N air and oil filters and Pennzoil Platinum syn. oil and Mobil 1 tranny fluid. On average I get around 10 MPG more than he does and my car has much smoother performance. The proofs in the pudding. My cousin used to be a OEM fanatic. He collects Corvettes and never strayed from using factory OEM parts. His Corvette buddies used to always tell him to switch to synthetic oil and Mobil 1/K&N filters, so on a whim he finally tried it. He immediately noticed that his MPG/performance went up. Weird ;) Not only that but K&N filters are 'greener' and better for the environment than standard paper filters because you get better gas mileage and never need to replace them, saving you money and the hassle of having to look for, and buy, a replacement cheap paper filter. Air filters are tested in accordance with the ISO 5011 test protocol to measure capacity (the physical amount of dust a filter can hold before cleaning is necessary) and efficiency (the filter’s ability to trap and hold dust). K&N filters have always excelled in these areas, which is why car enthusiast love them so much. Regarding the wheels, as long as the person doesn't use any adapters and the wheels meet or exceed the factory specs, the safety system will not be changed. I've seen Smarts in accidents and I can tell you first hand that there is nothing left of the front end/wheels. The car is DESIGNED to absorb the impact and the wheels don't effect how the crumple zones work. I will post a picture of this and you will immediately see what we mean ;)

yet, we're supposed to believe they've also spec'd a sub-standard air filter not up to the task, because presumably the air the engine gets is not as important as the lubrication?

This makes no sense. Maybe you just worded it poorly. Mobil 1 is one of the best oils available. Any car enthusiast will tell you that. Ironically most of those same people use the Mobil 1 filter, which is internally identical to the K&N filter. Imagine that ;)

[rawlus®]

i think you need to look someplace besides K&N's website for a balanced view.
i think you've been drinking the kool-aid too long. lol.

re: mobil 1 motor oil - i already agreed it is a high-performance oil, which is why it was spec'd for OEM. what i am saying is, if K&N is so super, why notspec that as well as OEM?

i have not seen any evidence that K&N meet or exceeds OEM specs as you've claimed multiple times in this thread. evidence is not a marketing claim on a brand's website. FYI.

anecdotal evidence doesn't cut it due to the placebo effect.

[Fredvon4]

K&N has been tested time and again by several independent shops... all K&N and most other oiled gauze filters INITIALLY pass MORE (and Larger) Particulates then the same sized Paper filter

Even on the K&N site, they acknowledge that their product filters better and better as it LOADS up with particulates...sheesh..

Oh yes, and By the Way....when the K&N is finally filtering properly.... well sorry to say but the flow rate is now about the same as a similar sized paper filter

Before any of you start bashing me... I use and race with the K&N product but They will never see service on my personal cars... especially down here in my dusty coliche environment... and using them off road is just plain nutz!

[Smart Car Geek]

Originally Posted by rawlus®

i think you need to look someplace besides K&N's website for a balanced view.

I have Maybe you need to do some independent research on the topic. Oh and I don't drink kool-aid, way too much sugar ;)

if K&N is so super, why notspec that as well as OEM?

Probably because the manufacture is interested in making profit instead of offering the highest available quality parts ;) Who knows, maybe the manufacture is in negotiations with them. The point is that they MEET or EXCEED the factory specs so the warranty can't be voided. But hey, don't take my word for it, contact companies like Lubrisol International who test such things on a regular basis, but I doubt that you will, or that you'll open mindedly search for facts. It's really simple. Take 5 minutes to find the factory specs. Then independently find the K&N specs. With a little math you will quickly see that the K&N specs exceed the factories. Google is your friend

[rawlus®]

done debating the topic...clearly you really like K&N and i don't want to seem as if i am trying to change your opinion, you're entitled to it.

like i said, K&N serves a purpose. i use one on my jeep out of necessity, but i don't use them in daily drivers for the reasons i stated.

[Smart Car Geek]

Originally Posted by rawlus®

clearly you really like K&N and i don't want to seem as if i am trying to change your opinion

I have no allegiance to K&N, but I DO like companies that build high quality parts/equipment. When people try to spread misinformation about these companies that does seem wrong to me ;) Likewise I'm not trying to sell you or anyone else their products. All I know is that their filters are TUV product endorsed and factory production monitored. That tells me a lot and when I switched over to using them I saw dramatic improvement in both performance and MPG. I believe what I see first hand with my own eyes, and as mentioned I have repeatedly seen this, and I don't claim you have to take my word for it ;) I believe that independent research is the key.

Originally Posted by Fredvon4

they acknowledge that their product filters better and better as it LOADS up with particulates

Link?

I use and race with the K&N product but...

...but, but, but I thought anecdotal evidence doesn't cut it

[mmmeat]

Originally Posted by WickedMessenger

You should know that the ABS and stability control is programmed with certain fixed variables based on the correct factory configuration. It is specifically designed with physical orifices and brake fluid flow rates for the diameter and rotational mass of the wheels it is designed for. Your brake system has no way of knowing that what it is supposed to do is no longer valid. That's why it might not react correctly in an ABS or stability event. Telling you that you will void your warranty is your dealer's way of trying to get you not to make this mistake and putting some weight behind it.

It has been my experience with the latest Daimler/Chrysler products that you can tell the computer exactly what size tire you're running on the vehicle, and the computer will readjust itself accordingly. It's the same for Chrysler, Jeep and Dodge as it is for Mercedes. It's probably the same for Smart as well.

Your pal,
Meat.

[mmmeat]

Originally Posted by Smart Car Geek

..."altering" could also mean you are making the car better. The pope doesn't bless factory parts.

Nope.

Altering means you changed the vehicle. Period. It doesn't mean that you made it better and it doesn't mean that you made it worse. It simply means that you made it so the manufacturer has an out when you come in for warranty repair work on that particular system.

Your pal,
Meat.