GM Car of the Future - 100 MPG (2005)

[vwW12]

Originally Posted by Bill Marshall

So, if the demand was there & there was a profit to be made, why did they kill the electric car?

Was there demand?

Was there profit to be made?

The troubles at Tesla, 15 years later and with the incalculable benefits of 15 years of technological and economic progress should provide you with the answer you are looking for.

Or you may choose to believe the conspiracy theorists.

[John_H]

Tesla was trying to make a car from scratch without the support infrastructure for everything beyond just their batteries and motors. Do you really think Tesla's production issues have anything to do with the GM issue from the 90s?

Sorry - I guess you've already suggested you do.

While I'm not a conspiracy guy, I can see there are a huge number of factors large corporations consider beyond the simple issue of demand and profit for one minor part of their product portfolio. It seems that the mere suggestion they dropped the product line for anything except for their "scouts' honor" stated reasons is cause to label this a conspiracy theory and not worth consideration.

Corporations can suck eggs. I'm grateful for the big companies that really do have their customers well-being in mind when they choose their directions. It's what some may call "planning for the long term."

I thought it was clearly pointed out there was demand and there was profit to be made, referring to those who leased the vehicles and the interests demonstrated online from someone who pursued this vehicle hard when it was introduced.

Or are you just trying to throw FUD (fear, uncertainty, doubt) at the view presented to discredit his perspective? I get confused when people continue to bait or troll; I didn't have the impression that was the case here but I'm starting to wonder.

[vwW12]

Some additional fear, uncertainty, and doubt:

1. A post here on smartcarofamerica from a member who purchased an electric smart car for a mere $43,500. And it will do a whole 150 miles before you have to recharge it!

2. Another thread here on smartcarofamerica about the MINI electric lease-only (evil corporation!) for only $750/month. And it only takes 26 hours to recharge the battery on a 110v outlet! Renters need not apply if you want the 220v outlet and the good news is that other taxpayers can subsidize you to the tune of $7,500!

3. A bit of news from today's Los Angeles Times, and I quote:

Americans have cut back on buying vehicles of all types as the economy continues its slide. But the slowdown has been particularly brutal for hybrids [...] They were the industry's darling just last summer, but sales have collapsed [... a] far larger than the drop in industry sales for the period

Yeah. FUD.

[Woody14619]

Originally Posted by Bill Marshall

So, if the demand was there & there was a profit to be made, why did they kill the electric car?

If only there were a movie about that... oh, wait... there is!

Reality is that several things caused GM to scrap the project. Two of the biggest were politics (they're in bed with the oil companies, duh), and the lack of parts and servicing needed.

The first one is pretty much a given. If you think the oil companies have no say in what sells here in the US, just look at the electric cars in other countries where they have less say. Most other countries already have electric vehicles. In the US oil groups have pushed to prevent development and sale of electric vehicles here, by hook or by crook. In some states just registering an electric car is a nightmare. In some the only way to do so is to call it a moped... no kidding.

GM also noted that with a very rare exception the leased EV1s went out and never came back until the lease was up. And when they did they were in almost the same condition, minus some tire and battery wear. Electronics require very little maintenance. There's no oil to change, no cylinders to wear out, no drive belts or timing belts/chains to replace. In most engines there are hundreds of moving parts, all of which fail over time. In an electric vehicle, the only "moving" parts are the electric engines (which are often field based and directly drive the wheels or an axle) and the particles in the battery.

Reality is there were/are people out there that have been clamoring for electric cars for a long time. Just like there were people looking for a 2 person, high mpg car like the smart. When the first real production electric comes to a larger market than just California, it will sell in droves just like the smart did.

Toyota did so with the RAV4EV, which they also at first only leased to large businesses that ordered in large volumes. Near the very end of the cars "life cycle" they opened it to the public. Even at $44K, selling them only in California, with 0 publicity and for only a few months, they sold more in pre-orders than they had parts to produce the remaining cars. They wound up delivering all the orders placed, but several parts were replaced in the last run of the cars with newer model parts (like different seats and interiors...).

Then, despite there still being a demand, and several hundred out of state requests that they flat turned down, they just stopped offering an electric option. Why? No answer.

There's demand... just no supply. And every supplier that can make an electric car, even for crazy amounts of money (Tesla at $100K for example) gets swamped with per-orders the minute they pop up and announce what they're doing.

But the nay-sayers go "Ah, it's all a conspiracy! It's just lack of demand!" Say what you will, there are several peolpe out there, including me, that would buy a decently optioned electric tomorrow if it were available. I'm not picky... I just want a car with at lest a 60 mile range, that can do at least 60 mph, and is under $50k. Should be simple, and in many other countries it's already available... but not in the US. Why is that?

[vwW12]

Originally Posted by Bill Marshall

So, if the demand was there & there was a profit to be made, why did they kill the electric car?

Originally Posted by Woody14619

If only there were a movie about that... oh, wait... there is!

Reality is that several things caused GM to scrap the project. Two of the biggest were politics (they're in bed with the oil companies, duh), and the lack of parts and servicing needed.

[...]

Should be simple, and in many other countries it's already available... but not in the US. Why is that?

So, who kills the electric car? Is it a dark, vast conspiracy of the oil companies and the car companies?

Or is it the US government, under a recently installed administration?

The Chevrolet Volt will not save General Motors Corp., the U.S. government said Monday in its Viability Summary of GM.

"While the Volt holds promise, it will likely be too expensive to be commercially successful in the short-term," the report said.

The electric car "is currently projected to be much more expensive than its gasoline-fueled peers and will likely need substantial reductions in manufacturing cost in order to become commercially viable."

Source: The Detroit News —March.30.2009


All I can say is, ouch!

[NCC1701]

Originally Posted by vwW12

Or is it the US government, under a recently installed administration?

From one of the articles:

... expected to price the four-passenger car to be around $40,000 -- more than double many compact cars. The car will have a range of about 40 miles on its fully charged batteries ...
------------
"Is it even profitable at $40,000?"

The article goes on to say the price will come down with increased production, and after overcoming development costs. But, that will take years, and how many of these $40K vehicles could they sell in the meanwhile ... when true bargains are barely moving due to the troubled economy.

Doesn't sound like something an ailing manufacturer should be attempting, while accepting my tax dollars for support. Timing for the Volt is all wrong.

[SuperGeek]

Originally Posted by NCC1701

Doesn't sound like something an ailing manufacturer should be attempting, while accepting my tax dollars for support. Timing for the Volt is all wrong.

Agreed. The best time for a hybrid is when gas prices are high and people have enough money to spend an extra 10-15 grand. Neither is the case today. For the volt, even moreso... 40 grand is a LOT of money for a car whose primary selling point is fuel mileage. At 2 bucks a gallon, the extra 20 grand will require 10,000 gallons of gas savings. Gas goes up to 6 bucks, suddenly that's only 3,000 gallons or so. Comparing to a 20mpg average car, that's 60,000 miles or 5 years of average driving when gas is triple what it is today. So, the Volt or any hybrid needs a major selling point of luxury or cool factor. Fuel savings alone won't cut it. And all of that is before economic pressures on consumers. Someone's at risk of losing a job, they're stupid to spend 40 grand on new tech from a company threatening bankruptcy. GM's in a real, real bind here.

[SmartJoeMN]

For those who want to know more about the EV1 project by GM, check out the movie, Who Killed the Electric Car (Who Killed the Electric Car? - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)

[chieftmc]

The outlook for GM looks bleak for any future offerings

[vwW12]

Originally Posted by SmartJoeMN

For those who want to know more about the EV1 project by GM, check out the movie, Who Killed the Electric Car (Who Killed the Electric Car? - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)

So... lemme see here...

Back in 1991, the Electric Car would have been a viable product, had it not been Killed a vast conspiracy pushed by the evil oil companies.

In 2009, the current U.S. government says that the Electric Car is not commercially viable.