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Old 03-31-2009, 02:13 PM   #31 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vwW12 View Post
Some additional fear, uncertainty, and doubt:

1. A post here on smartcarofamerica from a member who purchased an electric smart car for a mere $43,500. And it will do a whole 150 miles before you have to recharge it!

2. Another thread here on smartcarofamerica about the MINI electric lease-only (evil corporation!) for only $750/month. And it only takes 26 hours to recharge the battery on a 110v outlet! Renters need not apply if you want the 220v outlet and the good news is that other taxpayers can subsidize you to the tune of $7,500!

3. A bit of news from today's Los Angeles Times, and I quote:
In the past year, the hybrid sector has come to include SUV's & other large vehicles. When I looked into a Ford hybrid SUV, I foundthat they recommended drastically reduced towing performance. Who wants an SUV that can't tow anything?

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Old 03-31-2009, 06:15 PM   #32 (permalink)
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Which will do better? The 2009 Hummer H3T or the 2010 Volt?

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Back in 1991, the Electric Car would have been a viable product, had it not been Killed a vast conspiracy pushed by the evil oil companies.
In 2009, the current U.S. government says that the Electric Car is not commercially viable.
Do you think the 2009 Hummer H3T will be a viable item? I bet it sells fewer than Volt if it comes out. In 1992 the Hummer was a hot commodity, but in the summer of 2008 the dealerships couldn't sell Hummers at liquidation prices. The local dealership still has tons of 2007's and 2008's sitting on their lot. So weather you believe it or not, the economy does have an effect on what's commercially viable.

As for the rest, the Volt is doomed to fail not because electric cars aren't wanted, but because of people misunderstanding what it is. People hear "40 miles on a charge", and assuming that's the car's range limit. To be clear, the Volt has an gas engine built into it. It's a hybrid, not a pure-electric that just pulls over and dies after X miles. You can take a 500 mile trip in a Volt, but you're burning gas (to the tune of 40-50 mpg) for 460 miles of that.

Look at the pure electrics without a gas engine, and you'll see a much better cost/distance ratio. The smartEV, produced in limited quantity in the UK, has 120 mile range and costs just over $42K. The EV1 had a cost of $60K and a range of 90 miles per charge in 1991, and was made by GM. Do you really think GM would make another electric car, 2 decades later, that can't even hit near the same ratio?

The Volt is a vast improvement, and a good middle step to ween people off of gas. I think if GM survives and markets it correctly (aka gets people over their own stupidity), that people will start to gravitate toward this type of hybrid and then on to pure electrics. Just like in Europe.

The problem is that GM didn't want to do this in 1991, because it wasn't as profitable for them shot term. Pure electrics don't follow the maintenance/replacement cycles, meaning less money for them to skim off the top. So they played the game, hyped the "beefy SUV", and raked in the profits. Problem is they didn't plan ahead at all, and got caught with their pants down when gas and the economy exploded unexpectedly. And now smaller foreign companies are going to eat their lunch.
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Old 03-31-2009, 10:49 PM   #33 (permalink)
 
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The volts 400lb battery pack has the range of about 40 miles about what I get with a 7lb gallon of gas in my smart you see a problem here?
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Old 04-01-2009, 01:01 AM   #34 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
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The volts 400lb battery pack has the range of about 40 miles about what I get with a 7lb gallon of gas in my smart you see a problem here?
karl
Why is this a problem? The Volt is not a pure electric vehicle; instead, it's an "extended range plug-in hybrid" (GM's terminology). It will run for 40 miles on just battery power alone, but it won't die at the 40 mile mark. If you need to go farther than that, the gas engine will kick in. Because the Volt will have a 6-7 gallon tank, at 50 mpg it will get about 350 miles per tank. So for long trips, it would be as good as most cars, if not better (I have yet to get 350 miles a tank in my smart). And for most commutes (most people drive less than 40 miles roundtrip to work), the Volt should work without requiring the gas engine to fire up at all.

So a tank of gas in day-to-day driving should last quite a long time in a Volt, assuming GM lasts long enough to sell it and it can sell it at a price people are willing to pay.
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Old 04-01-2009, 07:51 AM   #35 (permalink)
 
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Smart enough my point was energy density. Batteries are what killed electrics and are still the big problem.
If I tie a pork chop around my neck to get the dog to play with me is that cheating?
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Old 04-01-2009, 08:15 AM   #36 (permalink)
 
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Help me out here, Karl, because I still don't get your point. So what if there's a difference in energy density between a battery pack and a gallon of gas? If you have both batteries and a tank of gas, the gas provides the additional range when 40 miles on pure electricity isn't enough.
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Old 04-01-2009, 09:26 AM   #37 (permalink)
 
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After the fat girl gets tired of pushing she hangs around for the rest of the ride.
393 lbs is a lot of ballast. karl
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Old 04-01-2009, 09:51 AM   #38 (permalink)
 
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After the fat girl gets tired of pushing she hangs around for the rest of the ride.
393 lbs is a lot of ballast. karl
Ok, let's see if I have this straight. The Volt is a "fat girl" that gets 50 mpg. You have a problem with that. But if she lost 393 lbs and goes on a completely gasoline diet, you wouldn't have a problem with that, even though she'd only get 25 mpg on that diet? You're right, I do see a problem with this. But it's your logic I'm having a problem with, not the batteries.
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Old 04-01-2009, 10:34 AM   #39 (permalink)
 
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For the smae anout of energy:
The fuel for a nuclear reaction weighs less than gasoline.
Gasoline weighs less than batteries.
Batteries weigh less than capacitors.

Weight alone doesn't matter; it's an issue of optimizing for best mileage and/or performance.
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Old 04-01-2009, 10:55 AM   #40 (permalink)
 
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