GM flat broke?

[forestacademy]

Originally Posted by grwhitaker

Primarily I do not accept that wholesale job losses, at a good pay rate and with benefits are a good thing. Workers are an asset [not a liability], in spite what the wall street traders and business management students have been taught and spewed since January 20, 1981.

In case you havent noticed their are a lot of other good paying jobs are being lost and it is not just related to the auto industry.

Lots of white collar jobs are being lost in the industries we have already given Billions to, and it has not helped. (im talking about the banking industry)

THey are trying to say this is not a bailout but a loan, is this the kind of loans we want to give out? I would defianatly consider this a sub prime loan that has a real good chance of not being repaid.

Consider this, if a company goes into champer 11 protection, loans are renegotiated. If we give the automakers a loan, and they still go into chapter 11 protectection does this mean we will never be able to get our loans back. Im just thnking here

[MPrice2984]

The Big 3 built the cars and trucks Americans wanted. The fault lies in the US lack of a cohesive energy policy that encouraged consumption. In case no one has noticed, both Toyota, Nissan and Honda are not able to sell trucks and big SUVs now either. I would much rather see the car makers invested in than a bunch of 'investment bankers' who have collect multi-million dollar bonuses while they screwed everyone.
If you think we can live without manufacturing jobs in the US you are dead wrong.

[Smartdavis]

Everybody is going to have to get a "haircut" to quote Arnold the govenator of California if they are going to survive long term. It is interesting we're not hearing much from the UAW about taking a temporary pay cut, or reduction in benefits to try to help their own industry. All I've been reading about is the executives pay. They all need to sit down together and come up with a better plan. The industry can survive and thrive but it's got to deal with the real world now and unfortunately that probably also means we should be thinking Big 2 instead of Big 3.

[pdboilermaker]

Originally Posted by Smartdavis

Everybody is going to have to get a "haircut" to quote Arnold the govenator of California if they are going to survive long term.

Isnt this the same state Govenor that requested some bailout money for his state and even some cities? Isnt he infact wanting the US taxpayer to pick up the tab for his states and several bankrupt cities haircuts?

[Smartdavis]

That's the one. He's got a democratically controlled legislature in one of the most liberal states in the country, and like Washington they didn't save a dime for a rainy day. He's been trying for years to get the State on a financial diet but he's only one guy, even though he's kind of scarey with those sunglasses.

[chieftmc]

Originally Posted by Smartdavis

That's the one. He's got a democratically controlled legislature in one of the most liberal states in the country, and like Washington they didn't save a dime for a rainy day. He's been trying for years to get the State on a financial diet but he's only one guy, even though he's kind of scarey with those sunglasses.

[vwW12]

Originally Posted by grwhitaker

All have labor laws written against workers rights and against collective labor, and workers willing to work at whatever pay rate is offered. South Carolina (BMW), Alabama (MB), and Tennessee (Nissan) are three of the most anti-worker states in the US.

False.

1. Autoworkers at Toyota make $30/hr vs. union workers who only make $27/hr on average
Toyota Motor Corp. gave workers at its largest U.S. plant bonuses of $6,000 to $8,000, boosting the average pay at the Georgetown, KY, plant to the equivalent of $30 an hour. That compares with a $27 hourly average for UAW workers, most of whom did not receive profit-sharing checks last year.

2. Honda auto workers made $26.20/hr in 2006 on average across all its U.S. plants that make over 1 million U.S. cars per year.

3. Nissan workers are paid $24 an hour in Mississippi and $26 an hour in Tennessee.

Dude, $26/hr in Tennessee? Compare to a measly $27/hr for unionized workers in Michigan, and the poor Michigan guys still have to pay union dues!

Guess which U.S. autoworker is better off! And these autoworkers are not needing to pick your taxpayer pockets at all.

[pdboilermaker]

Originally Posted by vwW12

False.


Dude, $26/hr in Tennessee? Compare to a measly $27/hr for unionized workers in Michigan, and the poor Michigan guys still have to pay union dues!

Guess which U.S. autoworker is better off! And these autoworkers are not needing to pick your taxpayer pockets at all.

And why praytel do you think that they pay those higher wages? Is it out of the kindness of their hearts or better ethics? How about an effort to keep the UAW out. Let the UAW fall and you will see the wages of those that you so fondly mentioned drop.

If you let the big 3 go bankrupt, they will not have to pay their subcontractors for millions of dollars in tooling, parts, RD, etc. Now what do you think all of those subcontractors will have to do? If you guessed file bankruptcy you are probably RIGHT ding ding (drop balloons now).

Now, you have killed 1 out of 7 American workers and their families, what do you think they will have to do? If you guessed go on the welfare system, you are probably RIGHT in many cases ding ding (drop more ballons here)

Then those families arent going to be able to afford the things as they have in the past such as going out to eat, seeing Mickey Mouse, buying name brand foods such as Kraft etc. what do you think those companies will have to do? If you guessed layoff workers your probably RIGHT ding ding (drop more ballons here).

Now they are on public assistance as well.

What about all of those "single mothers" that you had been so worried about before? Dang I bet this may eat in to the money that they are "entitled too" for being daycare providers of their own kids. Too bad it will be rough to find a job.

Wish the rest of the USA could be filled with big Mice and Tiggers.

[jediknight36]

Originally Posted by pdboilermaker

And why praytel do you think that they pay those higher wages? Is it out of the kindness of their hearts or better ethics? How about an effort to keep the UAW out. Let the UAW fall and you will see the wages of those that you so fondly mentioned drop.

If you let the big 3 go bankrupt, they will not have to pay their subcontractors for millions of dollars in tooling, parts, RD, etc. Now what do you think all of those subcontractors will have to do? If you guessed file bankruptcy you are probably RIGHT ding ding (drop balloons now).

Now, you have killed 1 out of 7 American workers and their families, what do you think they will have to do? If you guessed go on the welfare system, you are probably RIGHT in many cases ding ding (drop more ballons here)

Then those families arent going to be able to afford the things as they have in the past such as going out to eat, seeing Mickey Mouse, buying name brand foods such as Kraft etc. what do you think those companies will have to do? If you guessed layoff workers your probably RIGHT ding ding (drop more ballons here).

Now they are on public assistance as well.

What about all of those "single mothers" that you had been so worried about before? Dang I bet this may eat in to the money that they are "entitled too" for being daycare providers of their own kids

THank you!

[jediknight36]

Originally Posted by Smartdavis

That's the one. He's got a democratically controlled legislature in one of the most liberal states in the country, and like Washington they didn't save a dime for a rainy day. He's been trying for years to get the State on a financial diet but he's only one guy, even though he's kind of scarey with those sunglasses.

Getting too political... watch it