GM flat broke?

[BigWarpGuy]

Originally Posted by jediknight36

I would have to agree with you on this one. TPMS shouldn't be mandatory. It usued to be mandatory for you to check your own pressure. I bought those little cap monitors myself. I think its a mixture of many things. You cant blame any one thing. Its poor performance on the us auto makers, its the economy laying off people, the lack of credit, the fact we have to rely on credit. Many factors. And I have to agree that we should not have to bail out the companies. Maybe guarantee the workers that get laid off from these companies get employment elsewhere or re-training. Keep the working class working and all will be well.

I think it would also help if we could keep more jobs from leaving the country. With more working here (not having others come to this country to take US jobs), there will be more people with money to help keep the economy going; IMO.

[vwW12]

Originally Posted by BigWarpGuy

I think it would also help if we could keep more jobs from leaving the country.

In 2007, Honda of America built 1,015,462 cars here in the U.S., with U.S. workers, U.S.-based suppliers, and paying U.S. taxes.

Do we really want to give away tax money to GM, rewarding poor performance, by taxing successful U.S. employers such as Honda?

A heavily taxed economy is an economy that pushes jobs away to other, less heavily taxed countries.

[xcrew229x]

Sitting here reading all this, a thought tramped into my head. When I ordered mine, it WAS still Daimler/Chrysler. As a diehard Chrysler guy, (boo now) I wouldn't have even looked at it if it just said Daimler, or MB. GM and Ford have only themselves to blame for their current predicament. It has been their mantra forever that they can't make ANY money on small cars. Most everything in Europe is small. Wages and benefits there aren't small. Somebody is fibbing......... bailouts won't work unless business models change, and buying habits change with them. That said, if GM, Ford and Chrysler go down, so does the USA.

[jwight]

Originally Posted by vwW12

In 2007, Honda of America built 1,015,462 cars here in the U.S., with U.S. workers, U.S.-based suppliers, and paying U.S. taxes.

Do we really want to give away tax money to GM, rewarding poor performance, by taxing successful U.S. employers such as Honda?

A heavily taxed economy is an economy that pushes jobs away to other, less heavily taxed countries.

Yes they did; however, things are a little different in 2008:

11/03/2008 - TORRANCE, Calif. -

American Honda Motor Co., Inc., posted October sales of 85,864, a decline of 28.0 percent based on the daily selling rate*, compared to record October 2007 results. American Honda year-to-date sales of 1,266,447 represent a 3.6 percent decrease.

Honda Division posted October sales of 75,756, a decline of 28.4 percent versus October 2007. The Fit achieved an October record of 6,478, up 28.1 percent in its second month available as a completely redesigned 2009 model.
The Acura Division posted sales of 10,108, a decrease of 24.5 percent compared to October 2007. The TL, with sales of 4,340, increased 22.2 percent in its first full month available as a completely redesigned 2009 model. Acura total car sales are up 2.0 percent.

*The daily selling rate (DSR) is calculated with 27 days for October 2008, versus 26 days for October 2007. Year-to-date, the DSR is calculated with 257 days for 2008, versus 256 days for 2007. All percentages reflect DSR.

Honda Media Newsroom Release: American Honda Reports October Sales

[forestacademy]

Originally Posted by jwight

Yes they did; however, things are a little different in 2008:



Honda Media Newsroom Release: American Honda Reports October Sales

So what are you saying, We should be giving money to honda as well to save American jobs?

[vwW12]

Originally Posted by forestacademy

So what are you saying, We should be giving money to honda as well to save American jobs?

Well, Honda certainly builds over 1 million cars per year in Ohio with U.S. labor and U.S. based suppliers, and yet it is not seeking to get a freebie from taxpayers. Year-to-date October 2008, Honda's sales are only off by 3% when compared with the first 10 months of 2007.

So Honda does not need freebies paid out of your taxes. Now, would it be fair to give away your tax money to GM and not to Honda of America which employs thousands in Ohio?

[Dunerunner]

What is being illustrated here is the entire auto industry, the industries that supply them, and even companies you wouldn't expect like XM/Sirius are being hurt by the economic down turn. I don't believe anyone has decided how to best help the US auto industry recover from their mistakes, that will take time. I do know we're not going to fix it here but it's sure interesting discussing it. I still think a 100% tax rebate for buying a car from one of the Big 3 would keep the Executives of those corporations from burning the monies at some spa in Las Vegas.

[jwight]

This is a real dilemma, and most people are dealing with it from a political dogma perspective. Do we want the government bailing out all our poorly run businesses? Probably not; on the other hand, do we want the massive job losses, with the ripple of lost houses, lost tax revenue, increased burden on the public health care system (when folks lose their jobs, they lose their health care coverage) when/if the Big 3 go under - IMHO, definitely not.

One idea is to loan them the money [remember, Chrysler paid back their original government loan in full] and then mandate they produce a certain number of really fuel efficient cars. In essence, nationalize the auto industry. Terrible idea I know, but much better than giving subsidies to other industries and getting nothing in return [AIG is asking for more money now - must be planning another blow out for their execs!]

There is no simple, elegant and inexpensive solution to this. Short term we need to save jobs. Unemployed people don't pay taxes, support the retail economy, etc. Long term, again IMHO, it's time to put the myth of deregulation to rest and start holding companies (and government entities) accountable. At least some Enron folks went to jail; wouldn't hurt a few of the folks at the root of this mess to do some time in the slammer as well.

We now return you to your regular programming.

[Smartdavis]

If everybody in the country would just go out and spend $100 on a non-essential purchase this weekend, as in pretend it's 2007, things might start going in a more positive direction.... the government needs to get everybody feeling more confident about the economy and spending money. Until that happens nothing is going to work.

[pdboilermaker]

Why not give the big 3 the bail out? In the first place, it is a low interest loan, not a grant. In the second place, more people in the US work for the big 3 than work for AIG (who has already received more money in bailout money then the big 3 want together).

VW - You should really look at the Japanese model that you are using to defend not giving the big 3 the bailout money. Having worked for a part owned US/Japan company for nearly 20 years and having been to Japan 16 times to date, I can assure you of this - The Japan Government does in fact subsidize the Japan manufactures be it cars, trains, toys, food etc., such as the forced merger of Isuzu and Honda when Isuzu was struggling. Other examples are the high tarrifs on cars imported from any country other than Japan. A perfect example is in Japan they absoultly love Jeep Wranglers, however due to taxing in a protectionist market, the Jeep Wrangler that cost 20k here costs about 4,950,000 yen or about 45k in usd.

If we wish to help the US auto industry, I do agree with you - The US should adopt the Japan business model. BTW what will happen to Florida, a state with barely enough manufacturing jobs to consider themselves a manufacturing state when the auto workers, suppliers, subctractors, salesmen, etc loose their jobs? How many people will come to the beloved Wally World that your state is known for to drive your tourism/service based ecomomy?