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Old 06-23-2009, 12:22 PM   #1 (permalink)
 
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Location: Weirton, Northern Panhandle ofWV
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Japanese water powered car!!

JAPANESE WATER POWERED CAR!!


(Runs on tea, too!)

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Old 06-23-2009, 12:29 PM   #2 (permalink)
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oi, we've done this water for gas bit for a long time. I still don't know if its true. Oh, but if it were...... (I'd be a gypsy)

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Old 06-23-2009, 12:30 PM   #3 (permalink)
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"An energy generator takes hydrogen from the water, releasing electrons that power the car." and "The main characteristic of this car is that no external input is needed."

Grrrr....

And from the www.genepax.co.jp website after some yada yada:

"we are accordingly closing our website"

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Old 06-23-2009, 12:38 PM   #4 (permalink)
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and the catch is....

The thing I don't get with this kind of technology or even fule cell technology, If it's so great why not run our homes on it rather than from the wires that come into our home

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Old 06-23-2009, 12:46 PM   #5 (permalink)
 
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There is no free lunch. It takes energy to separate the hydrogen from oxygen in water. Look at the label on a bottle of water, it has no calories. No calories means no energy. I would guess that either this is a complete scam, or that the "energy generator" needs to be recharged frequently and expensively.

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Old 06-23-2009, 01:00 PM   #6 (permalink)
 
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. . . and isn't hydrogen just a bit dangerous??? And if not water, tea - why not (dare I say,) Pee.

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Old 06-23-2009, 01:13 PM   #7 (permalink)
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These guys are behind the times. Doc Brown's DeLorean was running on beer cans and banana peels in 1985.

And, this is likely to be just as real Mr. Fusion.


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Old 06-23-2009, 01:44 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Fuel cell technology I like. What I'd really prefer to see, however, is a liquid fuel source such as used in direct methanol fuel cells. There would be CO2 and water generated but not the litany of harmful emissions typical of most internal combustion engines (which is why they require catalytic converters).

The big advantage of fuel cells is a much more efficient method of turning chemical energy into mechanical energy. The fuel cells provide power from the hydrogen or methanol (or whatever) and oxygen by extracting the energy directly from the chemical bonds. The only inefficiency is the system-level losses such as resistance and anode or cathode efficiencies.

Internal combustion engines are inherently inefficient because of the thermodynamic process involved to turn heat - not chemical bonds - into mechanical energy. The thermal efficiency limit is in the 37%-43% range for "steel internal combustion engines" with average efficiencies coming in at 20% or less.

The average efficiency versus efficiency limit is why hybrids can work well. If the internal combustion is run only at peak efficiency to charge batteries, the average efficiency is around that 40% mark, losing a few more percent due to all the power handling (resistance and such).

Fossil-fueled power plants can attain efficiencies approaching 60%, still providing a significant net advantage of using fossil-fueled electrical hydrogen production, eventually delivering energy through fuel cells rather than internal combustion.

There are also "steam reformers" available that produce hydrogen gas chemically from fossil fuel sources such as natural gas (home-based devices have been proposed and small scale use already occurs). It's possible this method of "harvesting" hydrogen would provide a better overall efficiency compared to the typical fossil-fuel power plant. This is conjecture, however, since I haven't seen any numbers to compare the methods.

Hydrogen is dangerous. Gasoline is dangerous! Anything that contains a large amount of energy is dangerous. You can breathe hydrogen/oxygen mixtures (as do deep sea divers) without physical problems. I would NOT want to breath gasoline/oxygen mixtures! Gasoline fumes and even natural gas can loiter around a leak and pose an explosion hazard. Lighter gasses like hydrogen and even propane will quickly dissipate unless contained.
___

This is my take having developed an interest in fuel cells back in the early '80s and watching how development has continued over the years. I'm not involved with fuel cells directly but want very much to see them succeed.

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Old 06-23-2009, 01:45 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kurt013 View Post
Look at the label on a bottle of water, it has no calories. No calories means no energy.
How many calories are in a pint of premium unleaded?

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Old 06-23-2009, 02:24 PM   #10 (permalink)
 
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For those who lack the science background, the amount of energy to break the hydrogen from the oxygen (H2O --> H2 & O) exceeds the amount of energy you get when you try to combine them together. In simple English, "Water will run downhill, but it will NOT run uphill."

For those who demand a scientific explanation for why this is fake, please do a search on, "The Laws of Thermodynamics".

Laws of thermodynamics - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

LAWS OF THERMODYNAMICS

What is a simple defintion of the laws of thermodynamics?

6(e). Laws of Thermodynamics


Back in the early 1970s I had a neighbor who was foolish enough to invest thousands in some man's "black box" that would convert the exhaust from a car back into gas, that you could use to run the engine. The only thing this man's "invention" did was sucker people out of thousands of dollars.


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